mechanics for detached gear (int)

[britinmuc]

following (theoretical) sit.
R1
count not important.

batter hits a scorcher into cf, ball would not have left live territory of its own accord (umpires decision).
cf throws mitt at ball and deflects path - ball stops in live.

r1 advances to r3 on hit.
br passes 1b and reaches 2b with no play been made on him.

ball is still live

ok my preposed mechanics:

call the interference as it happens ("thats inteference; detached gear") let play continue until
a) everyone stops at which point if the runners havnt advanced the 3bases what they would have received, call time and award bases as appropriate
b) play is made (tagplay, whatever) - if runners have advanced at own risk, make the call on the tag otherwise call time, award bases

if the runners advance to the bases they would have been awarded then no time is called - play continues.

comments?

[jtn93]

RULE 7.05

Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance—
(c) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril.



You should have sent the first runner home and the BR gets third

[britinmuc]

Originally Posted by jtn93

RULE 7.05

Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance—
(c) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril.



You should have sent the first runner home and the BR gets third

i know the rules
but ball is live, so you shouldnt call time and award bases until you have to.

killing the play and awarding bases immediately sort of contradicts the last bit:
"The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril."

[shickenbottom]

Originally Posted by jtn93

RULE 7.05

Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance—
(c) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril.

You should have sent the first runner home and the BR gets third

Be aware this award is a "Time of Interference" award, not a "Time of Pitch" or "Time of Throw" award.

Meaning when you see the detached equipment contact occur, you need to determine the position of your Batter / Runner. Since this is a 3 base award at the time of contact, if the B/R has already passed 1st based, they would be awarded home.

[jtn93]

Originally Posted by britinmuc

i know the rules
but ball is live, so you shouldnt call time and award bases until you have to.

killing the play and awarding bases immediately sort of contradicts the last bit:
"The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril."

let it play out, signal 'that's interference' on the CF and than see how it plays out and award bases after

[britinmuc]

Originally Posted by shickenbottom

Be aware this award is a "Time of Interference" award, not a "Time of Pitch" or "Time of Throw" award.

Meaning when you see the detached equipment contact occur, you need to determine the position of your Batter / Runner. Since this is a 3 base award at the time of contact, if the B/R has already passed 1st based, they would be awarded home.

ooo makes sense, never really thought about that - thanks

[Assign]

Originally Posted by shickenbottom

Be aware this award is a "Time of Interference" award, not a "Time of Pitch" or "Time of Throw" award.

shick: Interesting...I did not know that...can you quote somethign to prove that,,,thanks

[ump_24]

Originally Posted by Assign

shick: Interesting...I did not know that...can you quote somethign to prove that,,,thanks

He won't be able to, because he is wrong.

Detached equipment on a batted ball is a three base award from time of the pitch.

Thrown or pitched balls is when the "time of interference" element comes in.

BTW, I've always been taught the proper mechanic is to point and verbalize "That's detached equipment!"

Bottom line: as long as you indicate in a relatively obvious manner a rules violation has occurred, you're good to go.

[shickenbottom]

Originally Posted by ump_24

He won't be able to, because he is wrong.

Detached equipment on a batted ball is a three base award from time of the pitch.

Thrown or pitched balls is when the "time of interference" element comes in.

BTW, I've always been taught the proper mechanic is to point and verbalize "That's detached equipment!"

Bottom line: as long as you indicate in a relatively obvious manner a rules violation has occurred, you're good to go.

Heres your "Unfindable" Proof and it's source:

Source: Jacksa/Roder - Rules of Professional Baseball Pg:62

Detatched Gear Section D (a)
If the ball is not touched, no penalty or award is applicable. If the ball is contacted, the ball remains live and every runner is awarded:
Three bases beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a batted ball (7.05b), (7.05c)
Two bases beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a thrown ball (7.05d), (7.05e)
One base beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a pitched ball (NFHS 8-3-3c-1

[Dano]

NFHS (Fed)

Also has all touching of detached or illegal equipment as

TIME OF INFRACTION

[ump_24]

Originally Posted by shickenbottom

Heres your "Unfindable" Proof and it's source:

Source: Jacksa/Roder - Rules of Professional Baseball Pg:62

Detatched Gear Section D (a)
If the ball is not touched, no penalty or award is applicable. If the ball is contacted, the ball remains live and every runner is awarded:
Three bases beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a batted ball (7.05b), (7.05c)
Two bases beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a thrown ball (7.05d), (7.05e)
One base beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a pitched ball (NFHS 8-3-3c-1

OBR only:

Read the rule iteself again

7.05(c) Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance three bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril.

There is no need to have an interpretation on it, period.

Any advance by the batter beyond third is at his own peril.

[mike_l]

From the PBUC Bluebook

6.9 DETACHED EQUIPMENT TOUCHING PITCHED OR BATTED BALL
Any defensive player deliberately touching a pitched ball with detached equipment (such as a catcher's mask, cap, etc.) will entitle all runners to advance one base from the time the ball was touched without liability to be put out. The ball is in play, and runners may advance beyond the awarded base at their own risk.
Any defensive player deliberately touching a batted ball over fair territory with detached equipment will entitle all runners - including the batter-runner -to advance three bases from the time the ball was touched without liability to be put out. The ball is in play, and runners may advance beyond the awarded base at their own risk.
Any defensive player deliberately touching a batted ball over foul territory that, in the umpire's judgment, has an opportunity to become a fair ball with detached equipment will entitle all runners - including the batter-runner - to advance three bases from the time the ball was touched without liability to be put out. The ball is in play, and runners may advance beyond the awarded base at their own risk.
If a defensive player deliberately touches a batted ball over foul territory that, in the umpire's judgment, clearly has no opportunity to become a fair ball, the umpire shall rule a foul ball. (See Official Baseball Rule 7.05(c).)

[shickenbottom]

Originally Posted by ump_24

OBR only:

Read the rule iteself again

There is no need to have an interpretation on it, period.

Any advance by the batter beyond third is at his own peril.

ump24, dig your head out of the sand. The interpretations are there to help guide us and give us extra insight into the Rules and what the rule makers intended. The Rule may be written that way, however, the rule does not tell us whether it is a Time of Pitch, Time of Throw, or Time of Infraction. The interpretation does and this is what is being taught at Pro-Schools. As for using the letter of the rule, that is fine, however to be able to properly apply the rule, you must understand the interpretations behind them.

If you didn't know Chris Jacksa and Rick Roder were instructors at the Joe Brinkman Umpire School which became the Jim Evans Academy where Rick Roder was also an instructor.