Go Back   Forums > Between the Lines > Mechanics

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 07-15-2010, 01:43 PM   #1
britinmuc
Veteran
 
britinmuc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 294
Rep Power: 42
britinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud of
Default mechanics for detached gear (int)

following (theoretical) sit.
R1
count not important.

batter hits a scorcher into cf, ball would not have left live territory of its own accord (umpires decision).
cf throws mitt at ball and deflects path - ball stops in live.

r1 advances to r3 on hit.
br passes 1b and reaches 2b with no play been made on him.

ball is still live

ok my preposed mechanics:

call the interference as it happens ("thats inteference; detached gear") let play continue until
a) everyone stops at which point if the runners havnt advanced the 3bases what they would have received, call time and award bases as appropriate
b) play is made (tagplay, whatever) - if runners have advanced at own risk, make the call on the tag otherwise call time, award bases

if the runners advance to the bases they would have been awarded then no time is called - play continues.

comments?
britinmuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 02:04 PM   #2
jtn93
Regular
No Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Barrie, ON
Posts: 150
Rep Power: 0
jtn93 has a little shameless behavior in the past
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

RULE 7.05

Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance—
(c) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril.



You should have sent the first runner home and the BR gets third
jtn93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 02:16 PM   #3
britinmuc
Veteran
 
britinmuc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 294
Rep Power: 42
britinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud of
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtn93 View Post
RULE 7.05

Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advanceó
(c) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril.



You should have sent the first runner home and the BR gets third
i know the rules
but ball is live, so you shouldnt call time and award bases until you have to.

killing the play and awarding bases immediately sort of contradicts the last bit:
"The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril."
britinmuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 02:17 PM   #4
shickenbottom
All-Star
 
shickenbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Snohomish, Washington
Posts: 400
Rep Power: 44
shickenbottom is a jewel in the roughshickenbottom is a jewel in the roughshickenbottom is a jewel in the roughshickenbottom is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtn93 View Post
RULE 7.05

Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advanceó
(c) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril.

You should have sent the first runner home and the BR gets third
Be aware this award is a "Time of Interference" award, not a "Time of Pitch" or "Time of Throw" award.

Meaning when you see the detached equipment contact occur, you need to determine the position of your Batter / Runner. Since this is a 3 base award at the time of contact, if the B/R has already passed 1st based, they would be awarded home.
shickenbottom is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 02:22 PM   #5
jtn93
Regular
No Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Barrie, ON
Posts: 150
Rep Power: 0
jtn93 has a little shameless behavior in the past
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

Quote:
Originally Posted by britinmuc View Post
i know the rules
but ball is live, so you shouldnt call time and award bases until you have to.

killing the play and awarding bases immediately sort of contradicts the last bit:
"The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril."
let it play out, signal 'that's interference' on the CF and than see how it plays out and award bases after

Last edited by jtn93; 07-15-2010 at 02:32 PM.
jtn93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 02:29 PM   #6
britinmuc
Veteran
 
britinmuc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 294
Rep Power: 42
britinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud ofbritinmuc has much to be proud of
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shickenbottom View Post
Be aware this award is a "Time of Interference" award, not a "Time of Pitch" or "Time of Throw" award.

Meaning when you see the detached equipment contact occur, you need to determine the position of your Batter / Runner. Since this is a 3 base award at the time of contact, if the B/R has already passed 1st based, they would be awarded home.
ooo makes sense, never really thought about that - thanks
britinmuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 03:36 PM   #7
Assign
All-Star
 
Assign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delran NJ
Posts: 493
Rep Power: 34
Assign is movin' on upAssign is movin' on upAssign is movin' on up
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shickenbottom View Post
Be aware this award is a "Time of Interference" award, not a "Time of Pitch" or "Time of Throw" award.
shick: Interesting...I did not know that...can you quote somethign to prove that,,,thanks
__________________
The most important thing about baseball is not the game, but the people you get to know along the way
Assign is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 03:48 PM   #8
ump_24
Crew Chief
 
ump_24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,061
Rep Power: 51
ump_24 enjoys spam and reese'sump_24 enjoys spam and reese'sump_24 enjoys spam and reese'sump_24 enjoys spam and reese'sump_24 enjoys spam and reese's
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assign View Post
shick: Interesting...I did not know that...can you quote somethign to prove that,,,thanks
He won't be able to, because he is wrong.

Detached equipment on a batted ball is a three base award from time of the pitch.

Thrown or pitched balls is when the "time of interference" element comes in.

BTW, I've always been taught the proper mechanic is to point and verbalize "That's detached equipment!"

Bottom line: as long as you indicate in a relatively obvious manner a rules violation has occurred, you're good to go.
ump_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 04:22 PM   #9
shickenbottom
All-Star
 
shickenbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Snohomish, Washington
Posts: 400
Rep Power: 44
shickenbottom is a jewel in the roughshickenbottom is a jewel in the roughshickenbottom is a jewel in the roughshickenbottom is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ump_24 View Post
He won't be able to, because he is wrong.

Detached equipment on a batted ball is a three base award from time of the pitch.

Thrown or pitched balls is when the "time of interference" element comes in.

BTW, I've always been taught the proper mechanic is to point and verbalize "That's detached equipment!"

Bottom line: as long as you indicate in a relatively obvious manner a rules violation has occurred, you're good to go.

Heres your "Unfindable" Proof and it's source:

Source: Jacksa/Roder - Rules of Professional Baseball Pg:62

Detatched Gear Section D (a)
If the ball is not touched, no penalty or award is applicable. If the ball is contacted, the ball remains live and every runner is awarded:
Three bases beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a batted ball (7.05b), (7.05c)
Two bases beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a thrown ball (7.05d), (7.05e)
One base beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a pitched ball (NFHS 8-3-3c-1
shickenbottom is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 04:39 PM   #10
Dano
Veteran Crew Chief
 
Dano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,467
Rep Power: 129
Dano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant future
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

NFHS (Fed)

Also has all touching of detached or illegal equipment as

TIME OF INFRACTION
Dano is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 04:51 PM   #11
ump_24
Crew Chief
 
ump_24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,061
Rep Power: 51
ump_24 enjoys spam and reese'sump_24 enjoys spam and reese'sump_24 enjoys spam and reese'sump_24 enjoys spam and reese'sump_24 enjoys spam and reese's
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shickenbottom View Post
Heres your "Unfindable" Proof and it's source:

Source: Jacksa/Roder - Rules of Professional Baseball Pg:62

Detatched Gear Section D (a)
If the ball is not touched, no penalty or award is applicable. If the ball is contacted, the ball remains live and every runner is awarded:
Three bases beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a batted ball (7.05b), (7.05c)
Two bases beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a thrown ball (7.05d), (7.05e)
One base beyond the base occupied at the time of the INFRACTION (contact) on a pitched ball (NFHS 8-3-3c-1
OBR only:

Read the rule iteself again

Quote:
7.05(c) Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance three bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril.
There is no need to have an interpretation on it, period.

Any advance by the batter beyond third is at his own peril.
ump_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 05:02 PM   #12
mike_l
Rookie
No Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 49
Rep Power: 0
mike_l is just getting started
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

From the PBUC Bluebook

6.9 DETACHED EQUIPMENT TOUCHING PITCHED OR BATTED BALL
Any defensive player deliberately touching a pitched ball with detached equipment (such as a catcher's mask, cap, etc.) will entitle all runners to advance one base from the time the ball was touched without liability to be put out. The ball is in play, and runners may advance beyond the awarded base at their own risk.
Any defensive player deliberately touching a batted ball over fair territory with detached equipment will entitle all runners - including the batter-runner -to advance three bases from the time the ball was touched without liability to be put out. The ball is in play, and runners may advance beyond the awarded base at their own risk.
Any defensive player deliberately touching a batted ball over foul territory that, in the umpire's judgment, has an opportunity to become a fair ball with detached equipment will entitle all runners - including the batter-runner - to advance three bases from the time the ball was touched without liability to be put out. The ball is in play, and runners may advance beyond the awarded base at their own risk.
If a defensive player deliberately touches a batted ball over foul territory that, in the umpire's judgment, clearly has no opportunity to become a fair ball, the umpire shall rule a foul ball. (See Official Baseball Rule 7.05(c).)
mike_l is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2010, 05:03 PM   #13
shickenbottom
All-Star
 
shickenbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Snohomish, Washington
Posts: 400
Rep Power: 44
shickenbottom is a jewel in the roughshickenbottom is a jewel in the roughshickenbottom is a jewel in the roughshickenbottom is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: mechanics for detached gear (int)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ump_24 View Post
OBR only:

Read the rule iteself again

There is no need to have an interpretation on it, period.

Any advance by the batter beyond third is at his own peril.
ump24, dig your head out of the sand. The interpretations are there to help guide us and give us extra insight into the Rules and what the rule makers intended. The Rule may be written that way, however, the rule does not tell us whether it is a Time of Pitch, Time of Throw, or Time of Infraction. The interpretation does and this is what is being taught at Pro-Schools. As for using the letter of the rule, that is fine, however to be able to properly apply the rule, you must understand the interpretations behind them.

If you didn't know Chris Jacksa and Rick Roder were instructors at the Joe Brinkman Umpire School which became the Jim Evans Academy where Rick Roder was also an instructor.
shickenbottom is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.