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Unread 07-14-2010, 09:06 AM   #14
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Default Re: deciding to early

Its called timing. As it has been said track it from the pitcher all the way to the catchers mitt. Did it pass thru the strike zone? Watch the ball dont plink or close your eyes. Track it. Ball or strike? call It.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 03:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: deciding to early

Quote:
Originally Posted by zam989s View Post
If the OP can get in on a bullpen/cage session with a pitcher and catcher, he could try this....

Get in your stance and lock in. Close your eyes before the pitcher throws the pitch. Don't even start to open your eyes until you hear it hit the catcher's mitt. After it hits the mitt, open your eyes and call the pitch. (When I was first taught to do this, I was told to call everything a strike just for training's sake) This will help with timing. The next step is putting tracking together with timing and actually getting the calls right.
YGTBSM

This is quite possibly, the worst advice I have ever seen given on an umpire's forum.
Great googley-moogley.
How in the is closing your eyes going to help with the proper tracking of a pitch?
I'll answer the question, since it's so obvious: IT WON'T.

Read HeyBlue26's reply, just above. Read it again. OK, now read it once more. Then read it three more times.

Close your eyes. Good grief. How utterly ridiculous.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 04:33 PM   #16
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Default Re: deciding to early

Brian:

Please step away from the bar, take a breath and listen to what I think the poster was talking about.

I think the poster had moved on from tracking and was simply talking about TIMING.

When we are working umpires in cages with pitching machines and IF it is simply a matter of quick timing we often have the umpire take two or three pitches EXACTLY as noted . . . with their eyes closed.

This helps them understand, without pitch pressure, what proper timing is based on.

I understand eveything in your post but I really think he was talking ONLY about timing.

Closed eyes training is valuable in my opinion.

T
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Unread 07-14-2010, 04:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: deciding to early

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_C View Post
Brian:

Please step away from the bar, take a breath and listen to what I think the poster was talking about.

I think the poster had moved on from tracking and was simply talking about TIMING.

When we are working umpires in cages with pitching machines and IF it is simply a matter of quick timing we often have the umpire take two or three pitches EXACTLY as noted . . . with their eyes closed.

This helps them understand, without pitch pressure, what proper timing is based on.

I understand eveything in your post but I really think he was talking ONLY about timing.

Closed eyes training is valuable in my opinion.

T
This is exactly what I'm talking about and I've seen it done at clinics with guys who were struggling with timing and calling the pitch as it hit the catcher's mitt. It has nothing to do with tracking. As I said, after this exercise is done, open your eyes and track pitches normally and it should help improve your timing.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 05:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: deciding to early

Quote:
Originally Posted by zam989s View Post
Close your eyes before the pitcher throws the pitch. Don't even start to open your eyes until you hear it hit the catcher's mitt.
How will closing his eyes help him get more pitches correct? Timing is not about time! It is about proper use of eyes. If you don't track pitches, you will have a very difficult time getting them right. Watch the pitch WITH your EYES WHILE they are OPEN until it stops moving. Then, make your decision. "Timing" will take care of itself.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 05:27 PM   #19
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Default Re: deciding to early

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_C View Post
with their eyes closed.

This helps them understand, without pitch pressure, what proper timing is based on.

I understand eveything in your post but I really think he was talking ONLY about timing.

Closed eyes training is valuable in my opinion.

T
No, Tim it does not. Timing is not about time...period. It is physiologically impossible to have bad timing if you track the pitch all the way until it stops moving. So bad timing comes purely from improper use of eyes, eg, tunnel vision (eyes not moving).

So, Tim, I disagree vehemently that closing one's eyes helps anyone understand what proper timing is based on. Since timing is proper use of eyes, not using them (eyes) can not teach what timing is based on.

Tony
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Unread 07-14-2010, 05:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: deciding to early

Quote:
Originally Posted by zam989s View Post
...I've seen it done at clinics with guys who were struggling with timing and calling the pitch as it hit the catcher's mitt. It has nothing to do with tracking.
Yes, it does. In fact it has everything to do with timing. Timing is about trying to get pitches right, not about some artificial time frame between when the pitch ends and when the PU signals his decision.

Closing one's eyes will not help one get more pitches correct, period. Timing is the outward manifestation of proper use of eyes, ie, it is what we can see and hear from a position where we can't see the PU's eyes tracking pitches. That is, if the PU is tracking there will be a delay (some time) between the end of the pitch and the signaling of the decision.

And BTW pause, read, react is the same mechanism at work on the bases.

Learn to track. Do not learn to create artificial timing mechanisms. Learning the track is hard work though, but it pays off in the end.

Tony
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Unread 07-14-2010, 06:11 PM   #21
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Default Re: deciding to early

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianC14 View Post
YGTBSM

This is quite possibly, the worst advice I have ever seen given on an umpire's forum.
Great googley-moogley.
How in the is closing your eyes going to help with the proper tracking of a pitch?
I'll answer the question, since it's so obvious: IT WON'T.

Read HeyBlue26's reply, just above. Read it again. OK, now read it once more. Then read it three more times.

Close your eyes. Good grief. How utterly ridiculous.
The closed eyes drill was used to teach me proper timing by Gerry Davis himself at one of his clinics in 1998. My timing was too fast and even though he tried to get me to understand that one must wait for the pitch to be caught to make your decision I could not separate what I was seeing from what I was hearing. I was making up my mind when the ball was still in flight. Gerry had me take several pitches with my eyes closed and call stikes as I heard the ball caught. Then I tried it again with eyes open and my life behind the plate changed right then and there. I have rarely felt I missed a pitch since that day. You have to take the visual cues out of the picture for a moment to get the person to focus on the audible cues. It worked very well for me. I have used the technique in training that I have done for others as well.

The phrase that timing is proper use of the eyes comes from Gerry Davis too. He was the first clinician I heard use that phase. This drill teaches proper timing in that you learn when NOT to make the call until you see the pitch has been caught. Listening for the pop helps trigger that method.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 06:44 PM   #22
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Default Re: deciding to early

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcarilli View Post
How will closing his eyes help him get more pitches correct? Timing is not about time! It is about proper use of eyes. If you don't track pitches, you will have a very difficult time getting them right. Watch the pitch WITH your EYES WHILE they are OPEN until it stops moving. Then, make your decision. "Timing" will take care of itself.
You can still track pitches and have bad timing, i.e. calling the pitch too quickly. While I feel like my timing has improved immensely, I still occasionally will track a pitch but stand up too quickly and call it. Timing may take care of itself for some of us, but that is not true for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcarilli View Post
Closing one's eyes will not help one get more pitches correct, period. Timing is the outward manifestation of proper use of eyes, ie, it is what we can see and hear from a position where we can't see the PU's eyes tracking pitches. That is, if the PU is tracking there will be a delay (some time) between the end of the pitch and the signaling of the decision.
This is simply a drill though, and a relatively short one at that, so you're not trying to get pitches correct. I'm not saying that you should spend 2 hours during a live game/scrimmage doing this. Maybe 15-20 pitches in a bullpen or cage session.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 07:48 PM   #23
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Default Re: deciding to early

Quote:
Originally Posted by zam989s View Post
You can still track pitches and have bad timing...
No you can't. It is physiologically impossible to track pitches properly and have bad timing. Think about it.

Last edited by tcarilli; 07-14-2010 at 08:10 PM.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 07:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: deciding to early

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_C View Post
Brian:

Please step away from the bar, take a breath and listen to what I think the poster was talking about.

I think the poster had moved on from tracking and was simply talking about TIMING.

When we are working umpires in cages with pitching machines and IF it is simply a matter of quick timing we often have the umpire take two or three pitches EXACTLY as noted . . . with their eyes closed.

This helps them understand, without pitch pressure, what proper timing is based on.

I understand eveything in your post but I really think he was talking ONLY about timing.

Closed eyes training is valuable in my opinion.

T
What a crock.

This is nothing more than timing gimmick. You may as well leave your eyes open and count "1, 2, 3..." and then call the pitch - it has the same effect.

Proper TIMING comes from proper use of the eyes: tracking the ball all the way to the mitt.

Closing your eyes? WTF, Chuck? It's worse than useless, because it's a waste of time.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 07:59 PM   #25
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Default Re: deciding to early

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcarilli View Post
How will closing his eyes help him get more pitches correct? Timing is not about time! It is about proper use of eyes. If you don't track pitches, you will have a very difficult time getting them right. Watch the pitch WITH your EYES WHILE they are OPEN until it stops moving. Then, make your decision. "Timing" will take care of itself.
+ 1,000.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 08:01 PM   #26
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Default Re: deciding to early

Quote:
Originally Posted by zam989s View Post
You can still track pitches and have bad timing, i.e. calling the pitch too quickly. While I feel like my timing has improved immensely, I still occasionally will track a pitch but stand up too quickly and call it. Timing may take care of itself for some of us, but that is not true for everyone.
That's because you're not tracking it properly - by using your eyes and following the ball all the way to the mitt. If you were doing that on every pitch, you wouldn't be standing up too soon.
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