Hidden Ball Trick

semper_fi_72 · 10-18-2009, 04:00 AM

LL Jr Game Today
During game 2B became dislodged and needed some work so I call time while the coach fixes base.
While we were walking back towards 1B line, coach says "Blue my F4 has the ball, we are going to make like F1 has the Ball so we can get the runner out."
He was very confused

when I told him no you can't try that stunt. For me to put the ball back into play the pitcher must have the ball in his possession and take his place on the rubber.
He asked where that was in the rule book?
I said if you really want to know, meet me at my car after the game and I will show it to you.
He says, if I didn't tell you we could have gotten away with it. No Coach you wouldn't have, since the ball would have never been legally put into play, because the pitcher did not have the ball in his possession. Well Blue you tell F4 to give ball to F1. No problem, very loudly, I tell F4 to give the ball to F1 so we can resume the game.
He never did come see me after the game.
I will copy 5.11 and hand it to him next Saturday.
Why would we ever want to teach our kids to play ball like that.
That is Sandlot

AugieDonatelli · 10-18-2009, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semper_fi_72

Why would we ever want to teach our kids to play ball like that.
That is Sandlot

Because coaches are cheating coke soakers, and players are cheating little rodents.

semper_fi_72 · 10-18-2009, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AugieDonatelli

Because coaches are cheating coke soakers, and players are cheating little rodents.

Augie
I am impressed, at least you didn't call them Brats this time....lol

bigbird69 · 10-18-2009, 06:43 AM

I had a similar thing happen last year. Time was called and while whatever was going on, the P had given the ball to the SS. I saw it. Pitcher was standing on the mound carefully staying away from touching the rubber waiting for me to put it in play and is just stood there staring at him. finally I said "Son, until you have the ball and are toeing the rubber, the ball will remain out of play."

He asked me about it after the game and I told him where the problem was. Can't try the hidden ball trick from a "time" situation. He understood.

I was not able to work that level this season as I found new employment that required me to relocate before that level started play. I heard from my partner that day (still very good friends of the family) that he got it right this year on a few occaisions.

heyblue26 · 10-18-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semper_fi_72

Augie
I am impressed, at least you didn't call them Brats this time....lol

Augie wouldn't ever do that would he?

kyle_jt · 10-18-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semper_fi_72

He asked where that was in the rule book?

Don't fall for this nonsense. The ol' "show me in the book" is the first step to many coaches ejection.

You should have just smiled when he told you that F2 had the ball, and said nothing. Just don't put the ball in play. Heck, he made it easy for you. In fact we was saving you from looking like a monkey by putting the ball in play with the pitcher with an empty glove. "Thanks coach!"

This guy wasn't a cheat, because he thought what he was attempting was legal. He was just ignorant. Big difference.

Rich_Ives · 10-18-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semper_fi_72

Why would we ever want to teach our kids to play ball like that. That is Sandlot

So just what's wrong with the hidden ball trick? It gets tried at all levels including MLB.

postman · 10-18-2009, 06:42 PM

There are a lot of "sandlot / loser" plays in all sports and most is typically in the 'under 12' age groups by coaches that think it is funny to outwit a 10 yr old having fun playing in sports.

there are several idiot/sandlot plays in baseball and they compare to the 'check hike' or "coach this ball is flat" play in football. From a 'coach perspective', it is lame axx to put these in. Some of us coaches are trying to work on rules, fundamentals, etc, so we can churn out high school players or give kids an opportunity to play sports for various reasons and then we have to have 'jokes' come in make us concerned about these lame plays.

I just love it when other coaches and teams try this crap any my players didn't fall for it and the essentially laugh it off or even say "don't try that sandlot crap with us" to the other team.

ump_24 · 10-18-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postman

There are a lot of "sandlot / loser" plays in all sports and most is typically in the 'under 12' age groups by coaches that think it is funny to outwit a 10 yr old having fun playing in sports.

there are several idiot/sandlot plays in baseball and they compare to the 'check hike' or "coach this ball is flat" play in football. From a 'coach perspective', it is lame axx to put these in. Some of us coaches are trying to work on rules, fundamentals, etc, so we can churn out high school players or give kids an opportunity to play sports for various reasons and then we have to have 'jokes' come in make us concerned about these lame plays.

I just love it when other coaches and teams try this crap any my players didn't fall for it and the essentially laugh it off or even say "don't try that sandlot crap with us" to the other team.

Watch the celebration if they do pull it off though....

Congratulations, you're smarter than a fifth grader...

postman · 10-19-2009, 03:50 AM

True there Ump24. And usually the guy jumping the highest, yelling the loudest and pumping the fists is usually the coach.... Embrassing for the 'coaches profession' in my opinion. But if it isn'st against the rules.... It just does not teach them much and as they start to play higher level ball (for those that have the skill and the instruction), it weeds itself out....

almost like the 9 yr old waving the bat around in a bunt stance to 'distract' the pitcher on a 3-0 count. funny as hell when the less skilled players (usually) continue that as they get to upper level ball and a catcher leans over and says "hey, leave the Little League crap at home..." heck I even smiled on that one after the catcher said it.

AugieDonatelli · 10-19-2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_Ives

So just what's wrong with the hidden ball trick? It gets tried at all levels including MLB.

Nothing, provided the ball is alive when they try it, and the pitcher doesn't stand on or near the pitcher's plate. Otherwise it's not going to happen, because no competent umpire will put the ball back in play without the pitcher on the rubber, so the play has zero chance of success.

Rich_Ives · 10-19-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AugieDonatelli

Nothing, provided the ball is alive when they try it, and the pitcher doesn't stand on or near the pitcher's plate. Otherwise it's not going to happen, because no competent umpire will put the ball back in play without the pitcher on the rubber, so the play has zero chance of success.

I know it has to be a live ball. I know you can't put the ball in play ubtil the pitcher has the ball on the rubber. That's not the issue.

A lot of coaches don't understand the necessity to makke the ball live properly. That doesn't make them cheaters. Heck, if they knew the rule they wouldn't try what the OP said they tried.

BUT!

and the pitcher doesn't stand on or near the pitcher's plate

Leave out the "on" and it's legal and part of the trick. The play itself is legal and not cheating - like it or not.

slatham · 11-16-2009, 01:26 AM

In LL, what is the call and action when a pitcher actually takes the rubber without the ball in attempt at the hidden ball trick?

10-18-2009, 04:00 AM	#1
semper_fi_72 Veteran Crew Chief Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Riverside, Ca Age: 58 Posts: 1,275 Rep Power: 96	Hidden Ball Trick LL Jr Game Today During game 2B became dislodged and needed some work so I call time while the coach fixes base. While we were walking back towards 1B line, coach says "Blue my F4 has the ball, we are going to make like F1 has the Ball so we can get the runner out." He was very confused when I told him no you can't try that stunt. For me to put the ball back into play the pitcher must have the ball in his possession and take his place on the rubber. He asked where that was in the rule book? I said if you really want to know, meet me at my car after the game and I will show it to you. He says, if I didn't tell you we could have gotten away with it. No Coach you wouldn't have, since the ball would have never been legally put into play, because the pitcher did not have the ball in his possession. Well Blue you tell F4 to give ball to F1. No problem, very loudly, I tell F4 to give the ball to F1 so we can resume the game. He never did come see me after the game. I will copy 5.11 and hand it to him next Saturday. Why would we ever want to teach our kids to play ball like that. That is Sandlot __________________ 2013 Game count 144. Rain outs 8, Cancellations 3 1,000 Career Game on 2/18/13 in 42 Months.

10-18-2009, 06:43 AM	#4
bigbird69 All-Star Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 729 Rep Power: 62	Re: Hidden Ball Trick I had a similar thing happen last year. Time was called and while whatever was going on, the P had given the ball to the SS. I saw it. Pitcher was standing on the mound carefully staying away from touching the rubber waiting for me to put it in play and is just stood there staring at him. finally I said "Son, until you have the ball and are toeing the rubber, the ball will remain out of play." He asked me about it after the game and I told him where the problem was. Can't try the hidden ball trick from a "time" situation. He understood. I was not able to work that level this season as I found new employment that required me to relocate before that level started play. I heard from my partner that day (still very good friends of the family) that he got it right this year on a few occaisions.

10-18-2009, 06:42 PM	#8
postman Regular Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 138 Rep Power: 12	Re: Hidden Ball Trick There are a lot of "sandlot / loser" plays in all sports and most is typically in the 'under 12' age groups by coaches that think it is funny to outwit a 10 yr old having fun playing in sports. there are several idiot/sandlot plays in baseball and they compare to the 'check hike' or "coach this ball is flat" play in football. From a 'coach perspective', it is lame axx to put these in. Some of us coaches are trying to work on rules, fundamentals, etc, so we can churn out high school players or give kids an opportunity to play sports for various reasons and then we have to have 'jokes' come in make us concerned about these lame plays. I just love it when other coaches and teams try this crap any my players didn't fall for it and the essentially laugh it off or even say "don't try that sandlot crap with us" to the other team.

10-19-2009, 03:50 AM	#10
postman Regular Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 138 Rep Power: 12	Re: Hidden Ball Trick True there Ump24. And usually the guy jumping the highest, yelling the loudest and pumping the fists is usually the coach.... Embrassing for the 'coaches profession' in my opinion. But if it isn'st against the rules.... It just does not teach them much and as they start to play higher level ball (for those that have the skill and the instruction), it weeds itself out.... almost like the 9 yr old waving the bat around in a bunt stance to 'distract' the pitcher on a 3-0 count. funny as hell when the less skilled players (usually) continue that as they get to upper level ball and a catcher leans over and says "hey, leave the Little League crap at home..." heck I even smiled on that one after the catcher said it.

11-16-2009, 01:26 AM	#13
slatham Cadet Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 27 Rep Power: 0	Re: Hidden Ball Trick In LL, what is the call and action when a pitcher actually takes the rubber without the ball in attempt at the hidden ball trick?

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