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Unread 05-29-2009, 06:43 PM   #1
calvinhess
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Default Check Swing Appeal

This has not happened to me...yet, but I wanted an opinion before it does. My question is "Can the offensive team appeal a check swing?". I know, 'why would they?' Heres my situation: No outs noone on. Count 2-2 on BR. F1 throws a breaking pitch, BR 'thinks' he goes around on the swing, but F2 blocks PUs view. Call is "Ball" Ball skips away from F2, BR didnt hear call, runs to 1st, safe. Can Offensive coach ask for an appeal, since if BU calls 'strike' he is on due to D3K?
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Unread 05-29-2009, 06:45 PM   #2
BrianC14
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Default Re: Check Swing Appeal

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Originally Posted by calvinhess View Post
This has not happened to me...yet, but I wanted an opinion before it does. My question is "Can the offensive team appeal a check swing?". I know, 'why would they?' Heres my situation: No outs noone on. Count 2-2 on BR. F1 throws a breaking pitch, BR 'thinks' he goes around on the swing, but F2 blocks PUs view. Call is "Ball" Ball skips away from F2, BR didnt hear call, runs to 1st, safe. Can Offensive coach ask for an appeal, since if BU calls 'strike' he is on due to D3K?
Nope.

Back to the box, 3-2 count. Nice try. Do the windsprints on your own time, batter.
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Unread 05-29-2009, 06:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: Check Swing Appeal

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Originally Posted by BrianC14 View Post
Nope.

Back to the box, 3-2 count. Nice try. Do the windsprints on your own time, batter.
9.02(c) Comment: Says the manager or catcher can appeal a check swing it does not say defensive manager. So why couldn't the offensive manager request the appeal?
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Unread 05-29-2009, 06:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Check Swing Appeal

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Originally Posted by eyb_uic View Post
9.02(c) Comment: Says the manager or catcher can appeal a check swing it does not say defensive manager. So why couldn't the offensive manager request the appeal?
Because of what it doesn't say.. "offensive manager". The comment refers to the catcher or the manager - which implies the defensive manager.

In the OP case, the offense is trying to appeal in order to gain an advantage. That alone tells me why they can't appeal.
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Unread 05-29-2009, 06:59 PM   #5
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Cool Re: Check Swing Appeal

From the MLBUM:
Quote:
...Under the Official Baseball Rules, the plate umpire has an obligation to ask for help when the
catcher or manager of the defensive team requests an appeal.
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Unread 05-29-2009, 07:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: Check Swing Appeal

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Originally Posted by CoachJM View Post
From the MLBUM:
Quote:
...Under the Official Baseball Rules, the plate umpire has an obligation to ask for help when the
catcher or manager of the defensive team requests an appeal.

JM
That seems very cut and dry. The 2008 MLB rules do not include the word "defensive". I do not have the MLBUM. Thanks.
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Unread 05-29-2009, 09:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Check Swing Appeal

That was a question on the NCAA test last(?) year. According to the answer, yes, the offense can appeal the "no swing".
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Unread 05-30-2009, 05:02 AM   #8
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Default Re: Check Swing Appeal

OBR Rule 2:00 An APPEAL is the act of a fielder in claiming violation of the rules by the offensive team.

Therefore the offense cannot appeal anything.

Example: Check swing. PU says yes he did. Offense asks PU to appeal to BU that he didn't go.

You would never allow this b/c it is not allowed by the rules.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 05:03 AM   #9
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Default Re: Check Swing Appeal

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Originally Posted by bobjenkins View Post
That was a question on the NCAA test last(?) year. According to the answer, yes, the offense can appeal the "no swing".
Thank god I didnt come across that question last year... I would have totally missed it.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 12:00 PM   #10
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Default Re: Check Swing Appeal

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Originally Posted by scumpire View Post
OBR Rule 2:00 An APPEAL is the act of a fielder in claiming violation of the rules by the offensive team.

Therefore the offense cannot appeal anything.

Example: Check swing. PU says yes he did. Offense asks PU to appeal to BU that he didn't go.

You would never allow this b/c it is not allowed by the rules.
Although the term "appeal" is commonly used, asking for help on a checked swing does not fall under the Rulebook definition of Appeal.

It is a totally different animal..
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Unread 05-30-2009, 06:40 PM   #11
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Default Re: Check Swing Appeal

Look at OBR 9.02(c) comment part of it says: The manager or catcher may request the plate umpire to ask for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike....

Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing.

So the definition of appeal still applies here because you are honoring the request of the defense to ask for help on the check swing but it would not be allowed for the offense to try to get the call reversed from a strike to a ball.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 06:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: Check Swing Appeal

Back to the OP. While I agree the offense can't appeal, the next step falls on the BU.

This was covered on a different thread but here it is again.
As the BU, there are 2 choices here and I am for the latter choice:
1) BU gives the "Voluntary" strike signal. Which means, if he thinks the defense might appeal and the BU is going to signal strike, then he "voluntarily" gives the strike call so everyone knows the situation. This is something which needs to be addressed in pregame b/c the PU should go immediately on a questionable check swing appeal.

2) BU waits for PU's appeal. If given immediately, then BU signals what he has. If not, then BU signals safe to prevent the defense from getting an unfair advantage.

The reason I bring this up is b/c of how it now has to be handled if the PU denies the OM's appeal. But, when the batter comes back, then the DC wants to appeal.
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Unread 05-30-2009, 09:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: Check Swing Appeal

Are you saying as a base umpire you would signal "yes he went" without the plate umpire asking you? That's what it sounds like in your part of your post.

I agree that this situation could be prevented by the plate umpire immediately going to the base umpire for help so that everyone can have the benefit of knowing what is going on. But as a base umpire, donít ever signal the strike unless asked.
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