Go Back   Forums > Between the Lines > Ejections

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 06-14-2008, 06:22 AM   #1
MaestroBen
Newbie
 
MaestroBen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 0
MaestroBen is just getting started
Default An extremely lengthy ejection report

Just typed this one up.
Jr. Legion game.

3 comments before anyone else chimes in:

1. Nebraska is the state that has the waivers for base coach helmets. Hopefully this will explain to y'all why sent such a lengthy report.
2. After I ejected the coach, I should have moved away more quickly, so that he could not continue to talk to me.
3. My partner should have intercepted the coach after the ejection and escorted him back towards his dugout.

My partner and I have already discussed points 2 and 3.

A question. At the end of the report, I discuss this coach's protest. The protest was given to me by this coach after the ejection (he was walking away, we were leaving the field, and he ran after me). It seems impossible for an ejected head coach to file a protest. However, I can't seem to find written evidence of this. Given the circumstances, I would like to be able to discuss that without any doubt. Any ideas?

-----------Ejection Report Follows---------


Baseball ejection Report for Team B Jr. coach XXXXXXX.

As a preface, Coach XXXXXXX has protested this game. Details will follow at the end of the ejection report.

My partner and I arrived, slightly later than we would have liked—because of our unfamiliarity with the town—at the field at 6:40 p.m., for a scheduled 7:00 Jr. game between Team A and “Team B.” I realize that “Team B” has a different team name for American Legion play, but that name was never offered to me, and in the Arbiter, the team was listed as “Team B.”

At 6:45, Team B began taking their infield, 15 minutes later than they should. At the plate meeting, teams were informed of the 2 hour time limit, and other pertinent facts. Coach XXXXXXX questioned whether this game should have a two-hour time limit, since there was no following senior’s game. Coaches were informed, however, that by rule, Junior games have a two hour limit, even if a senior game is not following. There was no additional protest at this point.

Also at the plate meeting, Coach XXXXXXX informed me that he and his assistant coach had no helmets to wear while coaching on the bases, and that their waivers “were coming in the same car as the helmets.” He asked me if that would be acceptable. I informed him that it would not. I asked him if he could wear batting helmets. He said that he did not know if his team had enough helmets. I then asked the Team A coach if Coach XXXXXXX and his assistant could wear two of UBC’s batting helmets. At this point, Coach XXXXXXX left the plate meeting, without coming to a resolution on this issue. When he and his assistant coach took the field for the top of the first inning, they had somehow managed to find helmets.

Game time was announced as 7:10 p.m.

Early in the game, Coach XXXXXXX stormed out of the dugout, without requesting time, to argue a judgment call at 2nd base. He was informed that the runner was safe because the runner had easily beaten the throw to 2nd base, and further, the tag attempt—made while the runner was standing on 2nd base—was unsuccessful. And, that any further arguing of judgment calls would result in his ejection.

In the top of inning 3, his player “XXXX” (number 9--Coach XXXXXXX neglected to include full names on his lineup. He mentioned this at the plate meeting, saying “I trust this won’t be a problem”) was ejected for throwing his bat following a strikeout (see other ejection report). After this ejection, Coach XXXXXXX approached me, and asked “Why was he ejected?” I responded that he was ejected for throwing his bat. He then asked “is that a written rule?” I informed him, that indeed, it was a Nebraska American Legion rule:

4.03 (D) [Any coach, player, or manager can be ejected for] throwing bats or other equipment.

At that point, he interrupted me and asked “Well, is a pitch in the dirt a strike?” To which I answered with a question “Coach, are you arguing balls and strikes with me?” He turned and walked away without answering.

Later in the game, he exited his dugout, again without asking for “time,” to question me about potential batter’s interference on a catcher’s throw to third base. He wanted interference to be called. I informed him that there was no interference, because the batter was (a) in the batter’s box, (b) made no flagrant or deliberate attempt to interfere, and (c) there was no contact between the batter and either the catcher or the thrown ball. He then asked me “What is the definition of interference?” I informed him that baseball defined interference by the batter as defined above. He tried to complain by stating a dictionary definition of “interference.” I informed him that such a definition was not pertinent, as the baseball rules—and long-standing interpretations—are the only deciding factor for the definition of “Interference.”

As soon as the sixth inning ended, I checked with my partner, who had the official game clock. He announced that the time was 9:12. Therefore, the game was over, as an inning had ended after the two-hour time limit had expired. As my partner and I were leaving the field, Coach XXXXXXX stormed after us. He tried to tell me that, since we had not called the game at exactly 9:10, the time limit was invalid, and that we had to play a 7th inning. I informed him that the rule states that “no new inning may begin after the time limit has been reached.” I also reminded him that we had discussed the time limit at the plate meeting. He continued to vehemently argue that the game should not be over.

After he continued to argue for an extended length of time, I informed him that “you need to stop talking to me immediately and walk away, or you will be ejected.” He responded that “the game is over, I don’t care,” and continued to argue.

At that point I ejected him. He stated—incorrectly—that, “it doesn’t matter, the game is over, there’s nothing you can do to me.” He must not have remembered that an umpire’s authority does not end at the final out but extends until the umpires have left the premises. He also must not have remembered the mandatory one game suspension and possible further suspension. He continued to argue with me. I asked my partner to find an assistant coach to escort Coach XXXXXXX away from us and off the field. After the game, my partner revealed to me that he was ready to step in between me and Coach XXXXXXX, because he believed that Coach XXXXXXX was preparing to punch me.

Because of the unprofessional, unsportsmanlike, and potentially violent behavior described above, for the first time in my umpiring career I am recommending that this coach be suspended for a longer time than the one game suspension required by rule. Since the conclusion of the game, I have spoken with other umpires who have stated that they too have had “many problems” with this coach, during both the high school and American Legion seasons.



Finally, Coach XXXXXXX, after he finally removed himself from our presence and allowed us to begin to leave the field, stormed back and informed us that he wanted to protest the game. He informed me that he will protest because he believes that a 7th inning must be played, because we did not stop the game exactly at the 2-hour time limit (because we stopped when the sixth inning was complete, two whole minutes after the time limit). I informed him that I would inform the Legion office that he was going to protest, although, of course, official protests must be filed by coaches and not umpires.

Later, as my partner and I were returning to Lincoln, it dawned on me that I was unsure if an ejected coach can file a protest. I have since consulted with other experienced and knowledgeable umpires, including umpire A and umpire B. All of us are of the opinion that an ejected head coach has no ability to protest a game, and that that duty would fall to the assistant who assumes the responsibilities of the head coach. However, we cannot find anything definitive on this point in the rules.

In either case, it seems clear that this protest should not be upheld. Both coaches were aware of the two-hour time limit. This time limit was made clear at the plate meeting prior to the game. And, no one disputes that the 6th inning began before the two-hour time limit was over and ended after the time limit had expired.
MaestroBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2008, 12:21 PM   #2
Tim_C
All-Star
 
Tim_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PDX
Posts: 731
Rep Power: 49
Tim_C is movin' on upTim_C is movin' on upTim_C is movin' on up
Default ~Ahem~

This report is EXACTLY why we limit ejection reports to 25 words or less in the Portland area.

My assigning commissioner would not even read this report.

Regards,
Tim_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2008, 12:54 PM   #3
Dano
Veteran Crew Chief
 
Dano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,471
Rep Power: 129
Dano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant futureDano has a brilliant future
Default

I've watched presidential debates shorter than that report.
Dano is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2008, 01:32 PM   #4
beenthere
Newbie
 
beenthere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7
Rep Power: 0
beenthere is just getting started
Default

Sounds like your ejection was two hours late.
My suggestion would be take control, drop the on field book explanations
and play ball.
Coach wants to continue to play childish games eject early and have a good game.
After you do this a few times he will behave and save his antics for other games.
If not, he just won't spend much time at games you umpire.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2008, 02:26 PM   #5
SamuelRock
Newbie
 
SamuelRock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 14
Rep Power: 0
SamuelRock is just getting started
Default

Quote:
Because of the unprofessional, unsportsmanlike, and potentially violent behavior described above, for the first time in my umpiring career I am recommending that this coach be suspended for a longer time than the one game suspension required by rule. Since the conclusion of the game, I have spoken with other umpires who have stated that they too have had “many problems” with this coach, during both the high school and American Legion seasons.

opinions and recommendations don't really have a place in ejection reports. It's like they said in Dragnet, just the facts Ma'am.
SamuelRock is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2008, 02:40 PM   #6
Tim_C
All-Star
 
Tim_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PDX
Posts: 731
Rep Power: 49
Tim_C is movin' on upTim_C is movin' on upTim_C is movin' on up
Default ~Ssigh~

Quote:
Baseball ejection Report for Team B Jr. coach XXXXXXX.

As a preface, Coach XXXXXXX has protested this game. Details will follow at the end of the ejection report.

My partner and I arrived, slightly later than we would have liked—because of our unfamiliarity with the town—at the field at 6:40 p.m., for a scheduled 7:00 Jr. game between Team A and “Team B.” I realize that “Team B” has a different team name for American Legion play, but that name was never offered to me, and in the Arbiter, the team was listed as “Team B.”

At 6:45, Team B began taking their infield, 15 minutes later than they should. At the plate meeting, teams were informed of the 2 hour time limit, and other pertinent facts. Coach XXXXXXX questioned whether this game should have a two-hour time limit, since there was no following senior’s game. Coaches were informed, however, that by rule, Junior games have a two hour limit, even if a senior game is not following. There was no additional protest at this point.

Also at the plate meeting, Coach XXXXXXX informed me that he and his assistant coach had no helmets to wear while coaching on the bases, and that their waivers “were coming in the same car as the helmets.” He asked me if that would be acceptable. I informed him that it would not. I asked him if he could wear batting helmets. He said that he did not know if his team had enough helmets. I then asked the Team A coach if Coach XXXXXXX and his assistant could wear two of UBC’s batting helmets. At this point, Coach XXXXXXX left the plate meeting, without coming to a resolution on this issue. When he and his assistant coach took the field for the top of the first inning, they had somehow managed to find helmets.

Game time was announced as 7:10 p.m.

Early in the game, Coach XXXXXXX stormed out of the dugout, without requesting time, to argue a judgment call at 2nd base. He was informed that the runner was safe because the runner had easily beaten the throw to 2nd base, and further, the tag attempt—made while the runner was standing on 2nd base—was unsuccessful. And, that any further arguing of judgment calls would result in his ejection.

In the top of inning 3, his player “XXXX” (number 9--Coach XXXXXXX neglected to include full names on his lineup. He mentioned this at the plate meeting, saying “I trust this won’t be a problem”) was ejected for throwing his bat following a strikeout (see other ejection report). After this ejection, Coach XXXXXXX approached me, and asked “Why was he ejected?” I responded that he was ejected for throwing his bat. He then asked “is that a written rule?” I informed him, that indeed, it was a Nebraska American Legion rule:

4.03 (D) [Any coach, player, or manager can be ejected for] throwing bats or other equipment.

At that point, he interrupted me and asked “Well, is a pitch in the dirt a strike?” To which I answered with a question “Coach, are you arguing balls and strikes with me?” He turned and walked away without answering.

Later in the game, he exited his dugout, again without asking for “time,” to question me about potential batter’s interference on a catcher’s throw to third base. He wanted interference to be called. I informed him that there was no interference, because the batter was (a) in the batter’s box, (b) made no flagrant or deliberate attempt to interfere, and (c) there was no contact between the batter and either the catcher or the thrown ball. He then asked me “What is the definition of interference?” I informed him that baseball defined interference by the batter as defined above. He tried to complain by stating a dictionary definition of “interference.” I informed him that such a definition was not pertinent, as the baseball rules—and long-standing interpretations—are the only deciding factor for the definition of “Interference.”

As soon as the sixth inning ended, I checked with my partner, who had the official game clock. He announced that the time was 9:12. Therefore, the game was over, as an inning had ended after the two-hour time limit had expired. As my partner and I were leaving the field, Coach XXXXXXX stormed after us. He tried to tell me that, since we had not called the game at exactly 9:10, the time limit was invalid, and that we had to play a 7th inning. I informed him that the rule states that “no new inning may begin after the time limit has been reached.” I also reminded him that we had discussed the time limit at the plate meeting. He continued to vehemently argue that the game should not be over.

After he continued to argue for an extended length of time, I informed him that “you need to stop talking to me immediately and walk away, or you will be ejected.” He responded that “the game is over, I don’t care,” and continued to argue.

At that point I ejected him. He stated—incorrectly—that, “it doesn’t matter, the game is over, there’s nothing you can do to me.” He must not have remembered that an umpire’s authority does not end at the final out but extends until the umpires have left the premises. He also must not have remembered the mandatory one game suspension and possible further suspension. He continued to argue with me. I asked my partner to find an assistant coach to escort Coach XXXXXXX away from us and off the field. After the game, my partner revealed to me that he was ready to step in between me and Coach XXXXXXX, because he believed that Coach XXXXXXX was preparing to punch me.

Because of the unprofessional, unsportsmanlike, and potentially violent behavior described above, for the first time in my umpiring career I am recommending that this coach be suspended for a longer time than the one game suspension required by rule. Since the conclusion of the game, I have spoken with other umpires who have stated that they too have had “many problems” with this coach, during both the high school and American Legion seasons.



Finally, Coach XXXXXXX, after he finally removed himself from our presence and allowed us to begin to leave the field, stormed back and informed us that he wanted to protest the game. He informed me that he will protest because he believes that a 7th inning must be played, because we did not stop the game exactly at the 2-hour time limit (because we stopped when the sixth inning was complete, two whole minutes after the time limit). I informed him that I would inform the Legion office that he was going to protest, although, of course, official protests must be filed by coaches and not umpires.

Later, as my partner and I were returning to Lincoln, it dawned on me that I was unsure if an ejected coach can file a protest. I have since consulted with other experienced and knowledgeable umpires, including umpire A and umpire B. All of us are of the opinion that an ejected head coach has no ability to protest a game, and that that duty would fall to the assistant who assumes the responsibilities of the head coach. However, we cannot find anything definitive on this point in the rules.

In either case, it seems clear that this protest should not be upheld. Both coaches were aware of the two-hour time limit. This time limit was made clear at the plate meeting prior to the game. And, no one disputes that the 6th inning began before the two-hour time limit was over and ended after the time limit had expired.
************************************************** ******

Tim C's Report.


Start: 7:10

At end of 6th the official clock reported it was 9:12. Game was ended.

Coach XXXX was ejected for an extended argument.

Added Note:

A protest was incorrectly filed after the game had ended.
Tim_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2008, 03:09 PM   #7
MaestroBen
Newbie
 
MaestroBen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 0
MaestroBen is just getting started
Default Re: ~Ssigh~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_C
************************************************** ******

Tim C's Report.


Start: 7:10

At end of 6th the official clock reported it was 9:12. Game was ended.

Coach XXXX was ejected for an extended argument.

Added Note:

A protest was incorrectly filed after the game had ended.
Tim,

You beat me back.

Y'all are, of course, right.

Here's the report I'll file Monday...there are advantages to this backwards state where one can no longer file reports online.

Coach was ejected post-game when he stormed the field to argue that another inning should be played after the time limit had elapsed. After a warning, he was ejected. An incorrect protest was filed after the ejection.
MaestroBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-14-2008, 03:39 PM   #8
Tim_C
All-Star
 
Tim_C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PDX
Posts: 731
Rep Power: 49
Tim_C is movin' on upTim_C is movin' on upTim_C is movin' on up
Default Yes sir,

Excellent edit.

Regards,
Tim_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-15-2008, 12:44 AM   #9
Richard_Siegel
Moderator
Moderator
All-Star Crew Chief
 
Richard_Siegel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,956
Rep Power: 10
Richard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: ~Ssigh~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_C
************************************************** ******

Tim C's Report.


Start: 7:10

At end of 6th the official clock reported it was 9:12. Game was ended.

Coach XXXX was ejected for an extended argument.

Added Note:

A protest was incorrectly filed after the game had ended.
Thanks for saving me 30 minutes of reading.
Richard_Siegel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-15-2008, 01:43 AM   #10
BT_Blue
Crew Chief
 
BT_Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Portland/Beaverton
Posts: 856
Rep Power: 46
BT_Blue enjoys it when you click on his icon
Default Re: ~Ssigh~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_Siegel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_C
************************************************** ******

Tim C's Report.


Start: 7:10

At end of 6th the official clock reported it was 9:12. Game was ended.

Coach XXXX was ejected for an extended argument.

Added Note:

A protest was incorrectly filed after the game had ended.
Thanks for saving me 30 minutes of reading.
only problem was that we all read it and lost 30 minutes of our life we will never get back.

One thing I dont see is what the coach said. I also agree that opinions have no place in the report. Is like a police report... only facts and direct quotes, if any, should be used.

Tim,
25 words or less? Really? Nice... here we have to submit as much as we can (not to the OP's extent but still). 25 words is easy!
BT_Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-15-2008, 02:07 AM   #11
BrianC14
All-Star Crew Chief
 
BrianC14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,381
Rep Power: 109
BrianC14 is a name known to allBrianC14 is a name known to allBrianC14 is a name known to allBrianC14 is a name known to allBrianC14 is a name known to allBrianC14 is a name known to all
Default

OK, I'll say it....


YGTBSM.

I mean, for crying out loud, why didn't you include the *(@(&^A* WEATHER report for the next 10 days while you were at it?
BrianC14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-15-2008, 04:07 AM   #12
Richard_Siegel
Moderator
Moderator
All-Star Crew Chief
 
Richard_Siegel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,956
Rep Power: 10
Richard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond repute
Default

OK. It's late. It's quiet in the house. So I read the whole thing,

I would have run him at:

"At that point, he interrupted me and asked 'Well, is a pitch in the dirt a strike?'"

That was just obnoxious sarcasm. I never let that go.
Richard_Siegel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-15-2008, 02:36 PM   #13
VTponyump
Veteran
 
VTponyump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Vermont
Age: 54
Posts: 238
Rep Power: 36
VTponyump enjoys it when you click on his iconVTponyump enjoys it when you click on his icon
Default

Richard has it right; the coach's pic is on a milk carton for the strike in the dirt comment.
VTponyump is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.