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Unread 04-03-2012, 07:34 AM   #27
AugieDonatelli
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Default Re: DK3

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Originally Posted by wayne37 View Post
To be proper, it's grammar. It might even be gram pa or gram-pa.
I said grammer intentionally. As in grandma. It was a lame attempt at humor. Or are you just being intentionally obtuse?
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Unread 04-03-2012, 01:10 PM   #28
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Default Re: DK3

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Originally Posted by Rich_Ives View Post
"Catch" deoesn't apply because it isn't a batted ball.

You need to see 2.00 "Ball" Comment.

If the batter swings at such a pitch after two strikes, the ball cannot be caught, for the purposes of Rule 6.05 (c) and 6.09 (b).
Could you elaborate? "Catch" applies to a "ball in flight", and the def. of "ball in flight" likewise refers to a "batted, pitched, or thrown ball."
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Unread 04-03-2012, 04:42 PM   #29
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Default Re: DK3

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Originally Posted by typikon View Post
Could you elaborate? "Catch" applies to a "ball in flight", and the def. of "ball in flight" likewise refers to a "batted, pitched, or thrown ball."
The rules as written don't always mean exactly what they appear to mean.

You have been hanging around long enough to realize that.

That's why "tag" was rewritten - so people would stop incorrectly applying the "catch" definition.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 05:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: DK3

Speaking of D3K!!!!!!!!!!!!
LL Junior Game
R3
Batter strikes out swinging, ball gets past F2, F2 gets ball and throws to F3 for the out.
I then hear my partner PU, who was a Cluster F***** call to me.
He then asks, "Hey the runner from 3B scored before the out at first was made. Does the run count"?

It was his first game working for me but is suppose to be an experienced umpire that even works HS games.
After losing track of the count over 6 times and outs several times along with several other problems, he won't be getting any calls from me for future assignments.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 05:05 PM   #31
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Default Re: DK3

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Originally Posted by typikon View Post
Could you elaborate? "Catch" applies to a "ball in flight", and the def. of "ball in flight" likewise refers to a "batted, pitched, or thrown ball."
Stop thinking of the common idea that we attribute to the definition of the word "catch" as meaning to acquire possession of something: i.e. catch a cold, catch a fish.

The meaning of "catch" in baseball is a very specific event. A CATCH of a ball in baseball only applies to a batted ball, or a pitched ball after two strikes. The results of such a CATCH always results in the batter becoming immediately retired. A legal CATCH requires the ball to be in-flight, eventually held in the hand or glove and then the fielder must maintain possession of the ball long enough to release it voluntarily or demonstrate complete control of his body.

A thrown ball is never "caught" per the definition of catch. A thrown ball or pitched ball with less than two strikes is "gloved" or "received." Although we often do say "catch" for a thrown ball only because the players don't know the difference.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 06:50 PM   #32
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Default Re: DK3

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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Ask yourself: whose posts do you really respect around here?
The people who help spread the knowledge of officiating baseball, that's who. I'll go to the GrammEr and spelling board for the rest.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 07:17 PM   #33
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Default Re: DK3

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Originally Posted by Richard_Siegel View Post
Stop thinking of the common idea that we attribute to the definition of the word "catch" as meaning to acquire possession of something: i.e. catch a cold, catch a fish.

The meaning of "catch" in baseball is a very specific event. A CATCH of a ball in baseball only applies to a batted ball, or a pitched ball after two strikes. The results of such a CATCH always results in the batter becoming immediately retired. A legal CATCH requires the ball to be in-flight, eventually held in the hand or glove and then the fielder must maintain possession of the ball long enough to release it voluntarily or demonstrate complete control of his body.

A thrown ball is never "caught" per the definition of catch. A thrown ball or pitched ball with less than two strikes is "gloved" or "received." Although we often do say "catch" for a thrown ball only because the players don't know the difference.
Richard, please cite the rule that states that "catch" only applies to a batted ball. This is found nowhere in the rules. In fact, the definition of "catch" specifies a "ball in flight" only, and then goes on to provide examples of batted balls, fielders running into walls, etc. Rules 6.05 (b) and (c), as well as 6.09 (b) all refer to the "catcher" "catching" the ball, and "legally caught" is the official language used to refer to this act. It appears that the term is used throughout the rule book to refer to the act of catching a pitch or a batted ball, but not a thrown ball. The rules do not mention the terms "gloved" or "received" in regards to pitched balls.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 07:30 PM   #34
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Default Re: DK3

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Originally Posted by AugieDonatelli View Post
Richard, please cite the rule that states that "catch" only applies to a batted ball. This is found nowhere in the rules. In fact, the definition of "catch" specifies a "ball in flight" only, and then goes on to provide examples of batted balls, fielders running into walls, etc. Rules 6.05 (b) and (c), as well as 6.09 (b) all refer to the "catcher" "catching" the ball, and "legally caught" is the official language used to refer to this act. It appears that the term is used throughout the rule book to refer to the act of catching a pitch or a batted ball, but not a thrown ball. The rules do not mention the terms "gloved" or "received" in regards to pitched balls.
I was not quoting rules. I am pointing out the best logic of how we should regard the term CATCH in baseball. Using the terms gloved or received takes away the "baggage" that the word catch brings with it in baseball.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 07:34 PM   #35
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Default Re: DK3

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Originally Posted by Richard_Siegel View Post
I was not quoting rules. I am pointing out the best logic of how we should regard the term CATCH in baseball. Using the terms gloved or received takes away the "baggage" that the word catch brings with it in baseball.
You did change your post, because what I quoted did not match what you have in there now. That's why I deleted this post immediately when I read your revisions.

Why is my self-deleted post back on this thread now?
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Unread 04-03-2012, 07:36 PM   #36
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Default Re: DK3

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Originally Posted by AugieDonatelli View Post
I said grammer intentionally. As in grandma. It was a lame attempt at humor. Or are you just being intentionally obtuse?
Well, in junior high, I had a girlfriend named Dee Ann Grammer. That's why I know the difference.

She went on to marry Mitch Williams, the original "Wild Thing".

To answer your question, I was being intentionally lame.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 07:43 PM   #37
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Default Re: DK3

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Originally Posted by AugieDonatelli View Post
You did change your post, because what I quoted did not match what you have in there now. That's why I deleted this post immediately when I read your revisions.

Why is my self-deleted post back on this thread now?
I don't know what you're talking about. What text is changed? What revisions are you referring to?

I have no idea why your post is still there when you say you deleted it. Maybe you forgot to click on something.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 09:11 PM   #38
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Default Re: DK3

Also, the reqirements for a tag require a ball be secured but there is no requirement for voluntary release or an invalidation if t firldere runs into a wall after a tag and drops the ball.

"Catch" is about a batted ball.

I'm not even sure if it applies to a pitched strike 3 because the "uncaught" effect (equal to not in flight) is in rule 2.00 Ball and again there is no requirement for voluntary release of the crash bit.

typikon is just here to remind us that the rules as written are not always what they mean - in his backhanded way.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 11:00 PM   #39
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Default Re: DK3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_Siegel View Post
Stop thinking of the common idea that we attribute to the definition of the word "catch" as meaning to acquire possession of something: i.e. catch a cold, catch a fish.

The meaning of "catch" in baseball is a very specific event. A CATCH of a ball in baseball only applies to a batted ball, or a pitched ball after two strikes. The results of such a CATCH always results in the batter becoming immediately retired. A legal CATCH requires the ball to be in-flight, eventually held in the hand or glove and then the fielder must maintain possession of the ball long enough to release it voluntarily or demonstrate complete control of his body.

A thrown ball is never "caught" per the definition of catch. A thrown ball or pitched ball with less than two strikes is "gloved" or "received." Although we often do say "catch" for a thrown ball only because the players don't know the difference.
I was not talking about "gloving" or receiving. Merely pointing out that the rules for some reason don't limit "catch" to a batted ball. You seem to be saying the same thing, i.e. certain pitched balls are also eligible to be "caught" in the technical sense.

Question: on a called third strike, the pitched ball is still "in flight" if it hits, say, catcher's mask first, then is gloved? Or does it have to hit the mit or hand first?
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