Batter Out of the Batter's Box

[mudder]

If a batter cannot makes contact with a ball (fair or foul) while his foot is completetly out of the batter's box, he would be out for being out of the batter's box.

But can he start with one foot completely out of the box when he sets up for the pitch (as the pitcher becomes set), would he still be penalized for being out the box, or is the determining factor where are his feet when he makes contact will the ball?

You see this all the time where batters will have a very open stance where their lead leg is off to the side and then they swing their front leg arround to square to hit the ball when the pitch comes in

[lawump1]

The rule (6.06 (a) ) states he can only be called "out" when he hits a ball with one or both feet completely outside of the batter's box. Thus, it does not matter where his feet are prior to his making contact by "hitting" the ball.

At this risk of hijacking this thread...and I'm trying not to...and at the risk of looking like I am flaming here...which I am also not try to do as I mean what follows as serious advice.

How do you, as the PU, know if the batter's foot is in or out of the box when the pitcher is coming set? [Answer: If you are doing your job, you don't! When the pitcher is coming set you better darn well be focused on the pitcher (watching for balks or anything else unusual at the mound).]

How do you, as the PU, know if the batter's foot is completely out of the box when the batter makes contact with the pitch? [Answer: If you are doing your job, you don't! They are not paying you to call a batter out for being out of the box. They are paying you to call balls and strikes. If you are doing your job of calling balls and strikes you are tracking the pitch all the way from the pitcher to the catcher's glove...meaning you can't look down to check the batter's feet as he makes contact with the pitched ball.]

If you see a batter CLEARLY set up outside of the box prior to the pitcher engaging the rubber (i.e. maybe the catcher complains to you), use some preventative umpiring and clue the batter in. (I'm not talking about your situation in the OP where the batter starts with an "open" stance and then closes it as the pitch is delivered. I'm talking about the batter is using a "normal" stance and is setting up outside of the box.) With that said many pro umpires will not enforce the back line of the batter's box. (Ever watch John Hirschbeck wipe out the back lines of the batter's boxes before the first pitch of a game?).

The ONLY time I ever call a batter "out" for being out of the batter's box is when he squares around to bunt and he stands on home plate. I can see this because he is preventing me from tracking the pitch and I have no choice but to look at him.

I am not trying to flame here...I just want to give you my thoughts on the batter's box rule.

[dukemd]

if he does not make contact (foul or fair) he is not out. 6.06a

6.02a 6.03 address the batter and box

[mt 73]

The ONLY time I ever call a batter "out" for being out of the batter's box is when he squares around to bunt and he stands on home plate. I can see this because he is preventing me from tracking the pitch and I have no choice but to look at him.
Bad call blue.
Having a foot on home plate when hitting the ball is not an automatic out.
He has to be touching home plate with his foot completely out of the batters box to be called out when contacting the ball.

[Rich_Ives]

Originally Posted by mt 73

The ONLY time I ever call a batter "out" for being out of the batter's box is when he squares around to bunt and he stands on home plate. I can see this because he is preventing me from tracking the pitch and I have no choice but to look at him.
Bad call blue.
Having a foot on home plate when hitting the ball is not an automatic out.
He has to be touching home plate with his foot completely out of the batters box to be called out when contacting the ball.

In FED and NCAA rules he is out if touching the plate while contacting the ball - no requirement for the foot to also be completely out of the box it he's touching the plate.

In OBR he has to be completely out of the box, on the ground, with no reference to touching the plate.

[mudder]

So the only time a batter is penalized (called out) is being out of the box when making contact with the ball, otherwise he can stand where he wants, without penalty?

Is there a specific rule reference that states the batter must be totally in the box when the pitcher is about to deliver a pitch?

[Rich_Ives]

Originally Posted by mudder

So the only time a batter is penalized (called out) is being out of the box when making contact with the ball, otherwise he can stand where he wants, without penalty?

Is there a specific rule reference that states the batter must be totally in the box when the pitcher is about to deliver a pitch?

6.02 and 6.03 in OBR - including the penalty.

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by mudder

So the only time a batter is penalized (called out) is being out of the box when making contact with the ball, otherwise he can stand where he wants, without penalty?

No, the batter must be entirely IN the box when he takes his stance. Since the lines are part of the box, this means he can be on the line, but no part of the foot may extend beyond the line.

There's no penalty, just tell the batter to get in the box (okay, if he refuses, then there's a penalty, but that's never happened to me).

[dileonardoja]

In case anyone is interested:

6.03 The batter’s legal position shall be with both feet within the batter’s box.
APPROVED RULING: The lines defining the box are within the batter’s box.

[lawump1]

Originally Posted by mt 73

The ONLY time I ever call a batter "out" for being out of the batter's box is when he squares around to bunt and he stands on home plate. I can see this because he is preventing me from tracking the pitch and I have no choice but to look at him.
Bad call blue.
Having a foot on home plate when hitting the ball is not an automatic out.
He has to be touching home plate with his foot completely out of the batters box to be called out when contacting the ball.

My post was in reference to OBR. I was not trying to refer to any rule in NCAA, FED or any other rule set where the batter could be called out for touching home plate even though a portion of his foot may still be in the batter's box (and I was not trying to imply that there is any such rule in OBR).

Rather, what I was trying to convey is that there have been times in games I have umpired when a batter has placed his entire foot on top of home plate as he squares around to bunt. (I admit I was not very clear about that in my first post in this thread...but that was what I was picturing in my head as I was typing). The intent of my referencing a batter standing on (top of) the plate was simply to show that in such a case the batter is making it so obvious that he is out of the box that you must call it in that case.

The major point of my first post in this thread was that umpires should rarely call batter's "out" for being out of the batter's box. In fact, I was attempting (admittedly poorly) to state that the only time I call a batter "out" for being out of the batter's box is when he stands on top of home plate when he squares around to bunt. I stand by this major point of my first post in this thread.

[EastTNump08]

I've only made this call once on a non bunt attempt now that I think about it. I think it's easier to see on a bunt because you have a pretty good idea of where his feet were before he squared and you can see how much he moved his feet when he went to square (more peripheral vision here) so you have a good idea if he was out of the box. I have to admit there have been time that I've told coaches complaining about this call, "Which would you rather me be really focused on back there, coach? I can focus on the pitch or I can focus on his feet. You pick." That said, I had one kid who scooted way up as a pitch was coming in (almost like a slap hitter in softball) because this kid was throwing so slow (10u rec game). I called him out, but everyone in the park saw him out of the box when he contacted the ball (of course that doesnt' mean that everyone in the park knew the rule haha).

[Dragon29]

Concur w/lawump1 - I've made this call exactly twice and each time it was a RH batter squaring to bunt and trying to get that extra step towards 1B.

Interstingly enough, both calls were on the same player (manager's son) almost exactly one year apart! The manager (a good umpire in his own right) didn't say a word either time.
I do think he smacked his kid in the back of the head as he was entering the dugout on the 2nd one.

[mt 73]

In fact, I was attempting (admittedly poorly) to state that the only time I call a batter "out" for being out of the batter's box is when he stands on top of home plate when he squares around to bunt. I stand by this major point of my first post in this thread.
If you call this during a game that I am coaching--under OBR--I will ask you if he is out because he is on the plate or because his foot is out of the box.
If you say "the plate" then I will protest the game.
( Not really, but I will roll my eyes a few times on the way back to the dugout.)