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Unread 03-28-2011, 08:34 AM   #1
richo_aust
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Default 60ft diamond. C Position 2 umpire system

I am posting this thread to consult with those of you who have many years of knowledge and experience with Little League 60ft games.
It is not intended in any way to criticize or undermined the teaching of Little League org, any other teachings.

With runners on 1st and 2nd, or loaded bases, I see that your starting position, between SS and 2nd base, outside of coarse.
If a play at 3rd develops, (IE:steal or catchers pick-off), you would have to hustle into the infield to have a clear view of the play at 3rd. If you were not able to get that jump, the 3rd baseman may be blocking your view of any tag at 3rd, seeing if the runner has got back in time, (position of clove compared to position of runners body).
Also from this position, is there many instances of the umpire, (on any play), interfering with or obstructing the runner on second.
To me, if your there and say ground ball to F5, and they try for a dbl, your pinned at short, no chance to get a couple steps to 1st.

When I first tried this position, I felt uncomfortable. I felt that I could not make any yards on any play, and was out of position for various calls.
I then looked at B position with any runners on base, it felt better and more logical to me.
I told myself, if there is going to be any play at 3rd, I would instantly head towards the plate, that would continually increase my angle and, to me, give me a better look at the front edge of the base. This would work with both R3 returning or R2 stealing.
This position would also allow me to see any DBL play at second, and be in a much better position to judge plays at 1st. To me, the whole infield is opened up.

Happy to hear from you all. I'll never stop learning.

I do make an admission that at this time I do not have a manual on Little League mechanics on any system of umpiring. I am buying one from the LL store. My statements are made by what I have viewed on the net.

Last edited by richo_aust; 03-28-2011 at 09:16 AM. Reason: admission add on
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Unread 03-28-2011, 10:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: 60ft diamond. C Position 2 umpire system

What you are doing is in violation of the "Inside/Outside" theory of a 60 foot diamond.
I don't blame you for wanting to improve on LL mechanics because, IMHO, they leave a lot to be desired.
Quite frankly I always felt that they had you working too far back and calling a play at 1B from the outfield C position is a recipe for failure.
I just became certified as a NYC FED softball umpire and they use modified 60 foot mechanics.
You are working just a few feet behind the players while in the B and C position and they teach you to break in on a play to 1B while in the C.
In other words while you are in the C you will burst in towards the mound as soon as F6 lets loose with the ball.
You move fast so the call is made when you are near the mound.
(Just make sure not to impede the 2B runner going to 3rd.)
Another option in baseball that I have seen is working pinch mechanics.
I never learned it but saw our association VP use it in a game that we worked together.
Your B is actually almost level with F6 and the C is nearly level with F4.
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Unread 03-28-2011, 02:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: 60ft diamond. C Position 2 umpire system

For just R3, I've been working from 2B-3B line extended, about 6' from second. I can look down the barrel of any pickoff plays at third, but I'm much closer to the logical infield play at first.

Deep C is a tough one, and sometimes you just get pinned behind F6 for the call at first. Where you start depends on a lot of variables. Hitter, score, outs, F6 positioning, pitcher, etc. For me, there's no book, or cookie cutter place to be.

But with R2, you've got to be in C to be ahead of the tag play. B's just not going to cut it, as you'll get straightlined.
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Unread 03-29-2011, 06:09 AM   #4
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Default Re: 60ft diamond. C Position 2 umpire system

I understand what you are all saying, but I do not understand the "violation of the "Inside/Outside" theory of a 60 foot diamond.
I'm playing this by ear, I don't have access to people who have experience or the clinics, with LL like you guys.
I understand 98% of the concept or theory.

I use 3rd-2nd line extended also, about 15', then 6' toward first.
As I said, plays at 3rd, I move directly toward the plate, increasing my angle.

What I do not want to do, is to instruct others in what I believe is best and then be quizzed by someone who has a great amount of knowledge, and be seen not to be following LL practices, if you know what I mean.

Last edited by richo_aust; 03-29-2011 at 06:14 AM. Reason: additional info
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Unread 04-06-2011, 10:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: 60ft diamond. C Position 2 umpire system

Quote:
Originally Posted by richo_aust View Post
I understand what you are all saying, but I do not understand the "violation of the "Inside/Outside" theory of a 60 foot diamond.
I'm playing this by ear, I don't have access to people who have experience or the clinics, with LL like you guys.
I understand 98% of the concept or theory.

I use 3rd-2nd line extended also, about 15', then 6' toward first.
As I said, plays at 3rd, I move directly toward the plate, increasing my angle.

What I do not want to do, is to instruct others in what I believe is best and then be quizzed by someone who has a great amount of knowledge, and be seen not to be following LL practices, if you know what I mean.
Standard LL positioning for just R3 is C,but that's a crumby place to work. I've been using, and teach to more advanced guys, is the 3 -> 2 line extended, back around 10 feet. What you need to worry about is getting hit by a batted ball, and it being dead because you're inside the infielders. I just draw a line between F4 and F6, and make sure I back out that far. That way I'm not in the infield.
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Unread 04-08-2011, 04:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: 60ft diamond. C Position 2 umpire system

I do HS Softball as well as Little League. Since both are on 60' diamonds, I just use the NFHS Softball mechanics on the LL field. For one, I am graded on my work on the Softball field where I am not on the LL field. I might as well use it as practice for the one that matters more.

Also, starting from C leaves you with a good angle to first and only a few steps away from a good angle at either 2nd or 3rd.

I notice that 90' baseball guys have a bigger problem working the smaller field than the other way around.
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