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Unread 06-27-2011, 08:08 PM   #1
Elfordo
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Default Who can call 7.08(a)(3)?

Little League:

7.08(a)(3) says: "Any runner is out when - the runner does not slide or attempt to get around a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make the tag."

Let's say I see this play happen in the 1st baseline. F3 has the ball and, instead of touching his base, he is 7 or 8 feet up the line and is going to tag the batter/runner who is coming right at him full speed. There is a tag/collision and the ball comes loose. Base umpire calls the B/R safe at 1st. I'm the Plate Ump. In my judgement the B/r did not make any effort to avoid the collision with F3. In my mind I have him out for 7.08(a)(3).

1st is not my base. Is 7.08(a)(3) similar to Obstruction & Interference, where any umpire can make the call? Or would I be attempting to over-rule my 1st base Umpire partner by calling 7.08(a)(3)?

Luckily, in my case Saturday, when this exact play occured at a District All-Star game, F3 held on to the ball as he was knocked down and we had an easy call of Out-on-the-Tag. I stayed still and the 1st base umpire called the out.

But if that ball had come loose on that collision Saturday...
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Unread 06-27-2011, 08:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: Who can call 7.08(a)(3)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfordo View Post
Little League:

7.08(a)(3) says: "Any runner is out when - the runner does not slide or attempt to get around a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make the tag."

Let's say I see this play happen in the 1st baseline. F3 has the ball and, instead of touching his base, he is 7 or 8 feet up the line and is going to tag the batter/runner who is coming right at him full speed. There is a tag/collision and the ball comes loose. Base umpire calls the B/R safe at 1st. I'm the Plate Ump. In my judgement the B/r did not make any effort to avoid the collision with F3. In my mind I have him out for 7.08(a)(3).

1st is not my base. Is 7.08(a)(3) similar to Obstruction & Interference, where any umpire can make the call? Or would I be attempting to over-rule my 1st base Umpire partner by calling 7.08(a)(3)?

Luckily, in my case Saturday, when this exact play occured at a District All-Star game, F3 held on to the ball as he was knocked down and we had an easy call of Out-on-the-Tag. I stayed still and the 1st base umpire called the out.

But if that ball had come loose on that collision Saturday...
The runner made absolutely no movement to the side at all? Not even a twitch?
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Unread 06-27-2011, 08:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Who can call 7.08(a)(3)?

In Saturday's case, no. The B/r was a much larger boy and he slammed F3 down pretty good in the collision. In my judgement, no: the B/r was guilty of 7.08(a)(3).

But my question is this: If I see 7.08(a)(3) somewhere on the field - it could be anywhere - can I call it from somewhere else, like OBS or INT?
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Unread 06-27-2011, 08:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Who can call 7.08(a)(3)?

IMO....would you want BU making a call on a play at the plate? OBS and INT are somewhat different in the respect they can happen away from the play. In this case let your partner make or not make the call - if HC questions then you can tell your partner what you saw - then its up to him.
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Unread 06-28-2011, 06:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: Who can call 7.08(a)(3)?

This call gets very harry in this case. Here is where some of the problems come into play.

You are too far for a meaningful slide (7-8 ft in LL, sliding would come up short), due to the Out of the Baseline rule, his ability to get around is also limited.

Now, that said, I have actually seen the fielder generate the collision in these cases as well. If the fielder generated, well... you have nothing per this rule.

I have also seen where the fielder dives into the runner to make the tag, much like a kid or dog darting in front of a moving car. Sometimes, the runner just cannot react making this a trainwreck.

Now, if the fielder is in the center of the baseline, waiting for the runner with time for the runner to react, by invoking this rule the only thing the runner really can do is gracefully give themselves up or run through the player running afoul of the 7.08(a)(3), you may also have a case for an EJ for unsportsmanlike conduct as well, if you guage intent on running through the fielder.

That all said, it is the BU's call, let him/her make it. I have found that in cases where sliding is not reasonalble (too far to slide) that this rule will be difficult to enforce. Other rulespecs where the MC rules exist are good ones here. LL sadly does not have that.
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Unread 06-28-2011, 06:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: Who can call 7.08(a)(3)?

Give your BU the first crack at it, wait a full second, then call it. You've got running lane responsbilities on that play, too, so you're not out of the loop here.

Now, we're going to about two things. Rules, and protocol. By rule, anyone can make that call. That's not a problem. But protocol is a bit stickier. On a play like this, you might have the best angle AND proximity, since your BU may be stuck behind F6. But he's in A, that's when you give him a heartbeat before you call it.

And don't bother waiting to see if the ball comes loose. If the fielder is waiting to make a tag, kill it right away.
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Unread 06-28-2011, 10:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: Who can call 7.08(a)(3)?

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Originally Posted by bigbird69 View Post
This call gets very harry in this case.
Pretending for a moment that the word you used was 'hairy', I disagree. It's simple and you've actually pointed out the BR's available options.

Slide - not a good idea here
Get around - worth a try; what's the worst that could happen?
Give himself up - safest option, but not one runners usually take

This is where coaching comes into play. Players need to be properly instructed on how to behave in these situations.

And, in the OP, I'd seriously consider an EJ for unsportsmanlike conduct, but it's a HTBT sitch.

For my money, it's the BU's call all the way. Let the DM do his job right or not at all.
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Unread 02-02-2013, 01:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: Who can call 7.08(a)(3)?

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Originally Posted by Elfordo View Post
In Saturday's case, no. The B/r was a much larger boy and he slammed F3 down pretty good in the collision. In my judgement, no: the B/r was guilty of 7.08(a)(3).

But my question is this: If I see 7.08(a)(3) somewhere on the field - it could be anywhere - can I call it from somewhere else, like OBS or INT?
You CAN, but, it might be wise to have a "conference" with your partner first. If it's in HIS area of responsibility, the last thing you want to do is "over-umpire." Discuss it. Ask what HE saw, then agree on a call, the penalty for it and then enforce it. TEAMWORK.
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