Go Back   Forums > Between the Lines > General

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 07-17-2012, 07:10 PM   #1
hulcap
Veteran
No Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 257
Rep Power: 18
hulcap enjoys it when you click on his iconhulcap enjoys it when you click on his icon
Default Coaches Opinion, Real or Imagined

Was doing a game recently, just like any other day baseball every day, strange reaction from the defensive coach. Yes you might call it annoying. Batter checks swing, ball is over his head, hard for me to see but didnt matter he attempted to hit the pitch. Offered. Ball goes to the back stop. Coach says "oh that's a foul ball it hit the bat". It did not hit the bat. Then a fan in the hinterlands says it hit the ball. IT did not hit the bat. Now is the coach blind or trying to get a call because the runners advanced? Yes it is annoying when a coach makes a big deal out of something he knows isnt true or he wishes was true.
hulcap is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2012, 07:16 PM   #2
semper_fi_72
Veteran Crew Chief
 
semper_fi_72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Riverside, Ca
Age: 59
Posts: 1,301
Rep Power: 113
semper_fi_72 has a brilliant futuresemper_fi_72 has a brilliant futuresemper_fi_72 has a brilliant futuresemper_fi_72 has a brilliant futuresemper_fi_72 has a brilliant futuresemper_fi_72 has a brilliant futuresemper_fi_72 has a brilliant futuresemper_fi_72 has a brilliant futuresemper_fi_72 has a brilliant futuresemper_fi_72 has a brilliant futuresemper_fi_72 has a brilliant future
Default Re: Coaches Opinion, Real or Imagined

Opinions are like Ass_oles, everyone has one.
The only thing that matters is your Judgement.
So that is when you advise the coach that "In my Judgement the ball was not fouled off".

These are the type of instances you learn to ignore and not let them get to you.
__________________
2014 Game count 12.
semper_fi_72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2012, 07:20 PM   #3
AugieDonatelli
All-Star Crew Chief
 
AugieDonatelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lakeside, California
Age: 57
Posts: 2,757
Rep Power: 262
AugieDonatelli has a reputation beyond reputeAugieDonatelli has a reputation beyond reputeAugieDonatelli has a reputation beyond reputeAugieDonatelli has a reputation beyond reputeAugieDonatelli has a reputation beyond reputeAugieDonatelli has a reputation beyond reputeAugieDonatelli has a reputation beyond reputeAugieDonatelli has a reputation beyond reputeAugieDonatelli has a reputation beyond reputeAugieDonatelli has a reputation beyond reputeAugieDonatelli has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Coaches Opinion, Real or Imagined

Quote:
Originally Posted by semper_fi_72 View Post
Opinions are like Ass_oles, everyone has one.
The only thing that matters is your Judgement.
So that is when you advise the coach that "In my Judgement the ball was not fouled off".

These are the type of instances you learn to ignore and not let them get to you.
Coaches are like Ass_oles, but fortunately, not everyone has one!
__________________
1 Corinthians 1:18 - 1 Corinthians 2:2

The Message of the Cross
AugieDonatelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2012, 07:48 PM   #4
mmp1
Rookie
No Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 62
Rep Power: 6
mmp1 is just getting started
Default Re: Coaches Opinion, Real or Imagined

Quote:
Originally Posted by hulcap View Post
Was doing a game recently, just like any other day baseball every day, strange reaction from the defensive coach. Yes you might call it annoying. Batter checks swing, ball is over his head, hard for me to see but didnt matter he attempted to hit the pitch. Offered. Ball goes to the back stop. Coach says "oh that's a foul ball it hit the bat". It did not hit the bat. Then a fan in the hinterlands says it hit the ball. IT did not hit the bat. Now is the coach blind or trying to get a call because the runners advanced? Yes it is annoying when a coach makes a big deal out of something he knows isnt true or he wishes was true.
A very similar play happened in the eighth inning of the Giants-Astros game on Saturday - Lincecum's 10th K if I recall correctly. Batter checked his swing on a very high pitch (ruled a swing for strike three by PU). F2 failed to catch the pitch off his mitt. Batter stood at home arguing for foul ball while F2 retrieved the ball and tagged him. PU had to explain to batter _and_ manager that the ball did not hit the bat. He then had to give F2 grief for not simply catching the pitch

I guess the point is that, if the batter swings and the ball eludes the catcher, many will assume it was due to being redirected by the bat, especially if the ball ticks off the glove on the way to the backstop, thus giving them the "I heard it hit the bat" argument.

The next batter also had a check swing strike three. This time, PU immediately (on his own) appealed to U1 who called the swing. The ball bounced all the way to the first base coach's box where Lincecum picked it up and flipped to F3 for the out. When was the last time you saw "K 1-3" in the scorebook?

You can see both, starting at 0:56 of this video:
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?co...y_23041697&v=3

(The most significant D3K of the game happened one inning later when, with two outs, the Astro's batter reach first safely and, more importantly, R2 scored to tie the game, on a D3K. Luckily, F2 got the walkoff hit in the 12th.)
mmp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2012, 07:56 PM   #5
Rich_Ives
All-Star Crew Chief
 
Rich_Ives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Owego NY LL
Posts: 2,700
Rep Power: 195
Rich_Ives has a reputation beyond reputeRich_Ives has a reputation beyond reputeRich_Ives has a reputation beyond reputeRich_Ives has a reputation beyond reputeRich_Ives has a reputation beyond reputeRich_Ives has a reputation beyond reputeRich_Ives has a reputation beyond reputeRich_Ives has a reputation beyond reputeRich_Ives has a reputation beyond reputeRich_Ives has a reputation beyond reputeRich_Ives has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Coaches Opinion, Real or Imagined

Quote:
Originally Posted by hulcap View Post
Was doing a game recently, just like any other day baseball every day, strange reaction from the defensive coach. Yes you might call it annoying. Batter checks swing, ball is over his head, hard for me to see but didnt matter he attempted to hit the pitch. Offered. Ball goes to the back stop. Coach says "oh that's a foul ball it hit the bat". It did not hit the bat. Then a fan in the hinterlands says it hit the ball. IT did not hit the bat. Now is the coach blind or trying to get a call because the runners advanced? Yes it is annoying when a coach makes a big deal out of something he knows isnt true or he wishes was true.
Or maybe it actually did tick the bat and you are the one who got it wrong. Have you not seen enough instant replays to know sometimes, just sometimes, the call made was incorrect?
__________________
REI
Rich_Ives is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-17-2012, 07:58 PM   #6
KenGibes
All-Star Crew Chief
 
KenGibes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,245
Rep Power: 248
KenGibes has a reputation beyond reputeKenGibes has a reputation beyond reputeKenGibes has a reputation beyond reputeKenGibes has a reputation beyond reputeKenGibes has a reputation beyond reputeKenGibes has a reputation beyond reputeKenGibes has a reputation beyond reputeKenGibes has a reputation beyond reputeKenGibes has a reputation beyond reputeKenGibes has a reputation beyond reputeKenGibes has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Coaches Opinion, Real or Imagined

People often see things differently than they actually happen. Expectations, anticipation, and individual bias can cause two healthy, normal human beings to see the exact same event and come to completely different conclusions about what happened.

I have discussed plays with coaches who absolutely saw the play differently than I saw it, even to the point of the order the events of the play happened.

To illustrate, earlier this year I was the BU with R1 and 2 outs. F6 fielded a grounder and made a bad throw to F4 covering 2B. F4 managed to catch the ball (off the bag) and make a stretching tag on R1 sliding into the bag. The tag caused F4 to lose his balance and he came crashing down and rolled over on his glove hand. F4 yelled in pain, rolled over on the ground and managed to hold the glove up to show me he had the ball. I banged the runner out. Then F4 tossed his glove off and grabbed his wrist in pain.

The opposing coach questioned my call. He was 100% sure that the tag and the glove coming off happened at the same time. THen he accused me of making the call too soon, although I had actually waited until F4 showed me the ball. Finally, the coach was positive that I made the out call after F4's glove came off, although F4 patiently waited in pain to see me call the out before doffing the glove.

I am convinced that this is the way the coach saw it, although his version was grossly incorrect. One thing is for certain. I was one of only two people on the field that day that had absolutely no preconceived expectations, hopes, or bias about how the play turned out.
KenGibes is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-18-2012, 02:32 AM   #7
hulcap
Veteran
No Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 257
Rep Power: 18
hulcap enjoys it when you click on his iconhulcap enjoys it when you click on his icon
Default Re: Coaches Opinion, Real or Imagined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_Ives View Post
Or maybe it actually did tick the bat and you are the one who got it wrong. Have you not seen enough instant replays to know sometimes, just sometimes, the call made was incorrect?
Nope. The bat didnt even come close to the ball. Not even close. So I am 100% sure the correct call was made. Was more than a little surprised when he said "oh it hit the bat". Actually more than just surprised a little ticked because he was trying to play me for a fool.
hulcap is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-18-2012, 06:05 PM   #8
Richard_Siegel
Moderator
Moderator
All-Star Crew Chief
 
Richard_Siegel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,380
Rep Power: 10
Richard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond reputeRichard_Siegel has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Coaches Opinion, Real or Imagined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_Ives View Post
Or maybe it actually did tick the bat and you are the one who got it wrong. Have you not seen enough instant replays to know sometimes, just sometimes, the call made was incorrect?
This is certainly true. But the coach was watching from the DG which has the worst angle to track a ball having to follow it going from pitcher to catcher. Lot of head and eye movement require. The umpire has the ball coming right at him. NO head or eyemovement required. The umpire clearly has the best angle to see this one.
Richard_Siegel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-18-2012, 09:50 PM   #9
hulcap
Veteran
No Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 257
Rep Power: 18
hulcap enjoys it when you click on his iconhulcap enjoys it when you click on his icon
Default Re: Coaches Opinion, Real or Imagined

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_Siegel View Post
This is certainly true. But the coach was watching from the DG which has the worst angle to track a ball having to follow it going from pitcher to catcher. Lot of head and eye movement require. The umpire has the ball coming right at him. NO head or eyemovement required. The umpire clearly has the best angle to see this one.
The coach was about 100 feet away. Doubt that he could see it tick the bat from that far away. A fan yelled from about 300 feet away "it hit the bat", same thing. Cant see that far. Metal bats. Would have heard it if it hit the ball. I was watching the ball. Missed the ball by a wide margin. Very wide margin. Runners advanced. Coach was trying to get a call. He succeeded in getting me ticked.

Thanks for the support Richard. This was not an angle thing. Nor was it an off the glove and that is what they heard thing. It was coach trying to get a call. Ball hitting glove does not sound like ball hitting metal bat
hulcap is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2013, 02:10 AM   #10
pmylumpire13
Crew Chief
No Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cascade, MD
Posts: 1,137
Rep Power: 103
pmylumpire13 has a brilliant futurepmylumpire13 has a brilliant futurepmylumpire13 has a brilliant futurepmylumpire13 has a brilliant futurepmylumpire13 has a brilliant futurepmylumpire13 has a brilliant futurepmylumpire13 has a brilliant futurepmylumpire13 has a brilliant futurepmylumpire13 has a brilliant futurepmylumpire13 has a brilliant futurepmylumpire13 has a brilliant future
Default Re: Coaches Opinion, Real or Imagined

Quote:
Originally Posted by AugieDonatelli View Post
Coaches are like Ass_oles, but fortunately, not everyone has one!
Augie - If someone doesn't have an ass_ole, I guess that means they are full of $#!T?
pmylumpire13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.