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Unread 04-30-2012, 06:17 PM   #1
Richard_Siegel
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Default Catch and carry?

There is a only chaulk line for the DBT on either side. Runners are on base. No outs.

I had F3 running to catch a foul pop running hard toward the line. He gloves the ball about 15 feet before reaching the line. A defensive coach comes off the bench steps over the DBT into LBT to grab F3 and prevents him from carrying the ball OOP. Do we have a rule that covers this? Whats the call? Do we treat it as if F3 went OOP with the ball, or stayed in the field?

Would we have a different call if the help came from a teammate?
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Unread 04-30-2012, 06:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

I would call time, one out, and move all runners up one base. Don't have book with me to cite a rule if any.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 06:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

Judge whether he would have left LBT without the assistance. Rule accordingly. This is a form of coach interference not covered by the rules.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 07:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

I'm thinking if it's a coach or teammate off the bench then treat it as if the fielder crossed the chalk line.

If it's a teammate already on defense then it's in play.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 07:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

In OBR rule sets, is there a penalty for catch and carry? I thought not.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 08:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

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Originally Posted by typikon View Post
In OBR rule sets, is there a penalty for catch and carry? I thought not.
Penalty probably isn't the right word.

Depends on where you are.

In Pro, with completely enclosed fields, they have ruled that it's a dead ball and one base award for going into the stands.

The actual rule (for more open environments) is that if you stay on your feet you can throw from wherever you are. If you fall it's a dead ball and one base.

NCAA allows a ground rule that you cannot throw over a stand, so you have to get back to where there's a clear throw.

All presume the ball was caught before leaving live ball territory.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 10:50 PM   #7
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

I say "dead ball" and one base if it's a coach that assists him. Keeping the F3 in LBT gives him an advantage visa vis any runners.

But I realize I'm making this up.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 11:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

I agree with "TIME". Award one base and coach gets, at the very least, a warning for his interference.
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Unread 05-01-2012, 07:11 PM   #9
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_Siegel View Post
There is a only chaulk line for the DBT on either side. Runners are on base. No outs.

I had F3 running to catch a foul pop running hard toward the line. He gloves the ball about 15 feet before reaching the line. A defensive coach comes off the bench steps over the DBT into LBT to grab F3 and prevents him from carrying the ball OOP. Do we have a rule that covers this? Whats the call? Do we treat it as if F3 went OOP with the ball, or stayed in the field?

Would we have a different call if the help came from a teammate?
There is no rule or penalty for this play. In fact, players/coaches from either dugout are allowed to support a fielder from falling into the dugout and does not require them to stay in DBT, so that rule somewhat sets a precedent for allowing this situation.
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Unread 05-01-2012, 07:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

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Originally Posted by gabby View Post
There is no rule or penalty for this play. In fact, players/coaches from either dugout are allowed to support a fielder from falling into the dugout and does not require them to stay in DBT, so that rule somewhat sets a precedent for allowing this situation.
Does that precedent allow the coach or player to come out of the dugout to do this before entering the DG? Or does it only allow them to stay in the DG and be nearby should the fielder enter the DG and catch him if he falls in the DG.
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Unread 05-01-2012, 07:38 PM   #11
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_Siegel View Post
Does that precedent allow the coach or player to come out of the dugout to do this before entering the DG? Or does it only allow them to stay in the DG and be nearby should the fielder enter the DG and catch him if he falls in the DG.
"B" (and a few characters to make the message long enough)
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Unread 05-03-2012, 06:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

There is no rule that specifcally makes it illegal for a player or coach coming off the bench to step into LBT and assist a fielder by helping him stay on LBT that I know of.

I asked this question because I had it happen. Not exactly as in the OP which I created to illustrate the situation. I had a 12 y/o F3 catch a ball and was headed right for the opening to the dugout. You could see he was going to bust right into the dugout, HIS dugout. (No steps up or down. Just an opening in the fence to the dugout on field level.) One of the defensive coaches stepped out of the DG and put out his hands to "cushion" the player's potentially unsafe entry into the DG. He might not have expected it to be so effective, but he actulally stopped the kid from entering the dugout entirely. R3 tagged up and was coming home. F3 knew this and began to wind-up to throw to HP to attempt to retire R3.

I knew there was no specific rule, but 22 years of doing games told be that this was "not in the spirit of the rules." As F3 began to make his throw I called "time." I interpreted the situation that what we had as a form of interference by bench personel, similar to spectator interference. The players and coaches on the bench, not participating in the game, can not come onto LBT and effect the course of the game. In my judgment, this was no different than if F6 overthrew F3 and a defensive coach off the bench came onto LBT to grab or deflect the ball to keep it from going OOP.

I called "time," and ruled that the ball became dead when the coach intentionally helped the fielder. This had the same effect as a catch and carry. I scored the runner. There were no other runners but I would have moved them up one base if there were.

Later on I thought about what I would have done if F3 was stopped from going OOP with the ball by an OFFENSIVE coach at the other team's dugout. I suppose I would have called time and sent any runners back to the base they were at at the TOP.
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Unread 05-04-2012, 03:36 AM   #13
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Default Re: Catch and carry?

Richard: Later on I thought about what I would have done if F3 was stopped from going OOP with the ball by an OFFENSIVE coach at the other team's dugout. I suppose I would have called time and sent any runners back to the base they were at at the TOP.

IMO, I would have made the same ruling even if it was an OC that stopped the fielder. He didn't do anything to help his team. I would think he was looking at the fielder's safety.
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