This is always good for the newer umpires

[BigUmp56]

Lets see how some of our new to umpiring members would call this.


RHP straddles the rubber, with R3. F1 now leans toward the plate looking in to the catcher with his glove on his knee and the ball at his side. R3 takes a nice lead, and F1 stands straight up and picks him off.


Tim.

[ohio-ump74]

Are his hands coming together as he stands up and or does he stop...? Need more information...

[Richard_Siegel]

Originally Posted by ohio-ump74

Are his hands coming together as he stands up and or does he stop...? Need more information...

Don't read anymore into the question.

RHP straddles the rubber, with R3. F1 now leans toward the plate looking in to the catcher with his glove on his knee and the ball at his side. R3 takes a nice lead, and F1 stands straight up and picks him off.

You can assume that F1 did nothing more than keep his glove hand at his side coming off the knee to his theigh, and he makes no stop - just throws. His feet stay where they were.

[newblue4co]

Well I will give it a shot.

I have an out. The pitcher was not engaging the rubber.

[Richard_Siegel]

Originally Posted by newblue4co

Well I will give it a shot.

I have an out. The pitcher was not engaging the rubber.

The objective was to see if you think this is a balk or not.

[Ozzy]

Originally Posted by newblue4co

Well I will give it a shot.

I have an out. The pitcher was not engaging the rubber.

Why would you have an out?

[mstaylor]

He has an out because there was no balk so the pick-off is good. Rich, Please don't start the on the rubber/off the rubber argument here. It's 300+ posts on another board.

[Rich_Ives]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Lets see how some of our new to umpiring members would call this.


RHP straddles the rubber, with R3. F1 now leans toward the plate looking in to the catcher with his glove on his knee and the ball at his side. R3 takes a nice lead, and F1 stands straight up and picks him off.


Tim.

As he leans in: "Time! Hey pitch, you have to be engaged when taking your signs."

[newblue]

I'm a newer umpire and I'll give it a shot. It' not a balk but I agree with Rich and call "time". If I'm wrong, I'd rather be wrong now and get corrected than be wrong on the field.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Rich_Ives

As he leans in: "Time! Hey pitch, you have to be engaged when taking your signs."

That's great, Rich. I'm glad you finally decided to start umpiring some games. Any ideas on what you'll buy for gear this Winter?


Tim.

[mr umpire]

Simply looking at the catcher for signs is fine depending upon league rules. Although, he shouldn't b/c it lends too much for a quick pitch. Then, his next move better be to put his pivot foot on the rubber or stand up and turn his body away from the batter and head in the direction of second base or any other move illustrating he is NOT simulating his pitching motion at the same time, even for 1 step, I'll consider him not deceiving anyone. Everyone knows he is not in the act of pitching at that point.

But, if he stands straight up, even slightly moving his glove from his knee, he has just simulated pitching IMO. Nothing says he has to move his feet to come set. IMO, he is in the act of coming set when he decided to throw to third base. Therefore, I will call a balk. He had the intent to deceive the runner which is the first rule of a balk.

[Richard_Siegel]

Originally Posted by mr umpire

Simply looking at the catcher for signs is fine depending upon league rules. Although, he shouldn't b/c it lends too much for a quick pitch. Then, his next move better be to put his pivot foot on the rubber or stand up and turn his body away from the batter and head in the direction of second base or any other move illustrating he is NOT simulating his pitching motion at the same time, even for 1 step, I'll consider him not deceiving anyone. Everyone knows he is not in the act of pitching at that point.

But, if he stands straight up, even slightly moving his glove from his knee, he has just simulated pitching IMO. Nothing says he has to move his feet to come set. IMO, he is in the act of coming set when he decided to throw to third base. Therefore, I will call a balk. He had the intent to deceive the runner which is the first rule of a balk.

Quoted from above: "He had the intent to deceive the runner which is the first rule of a balk." That sentence is utterly and completely wrong. As long as an umpire thinks this way, he will forever make mistakes recognizing balks, much less try to explain them.

If a pitcher lifts is glove from his knee and is in the act of coming set and then interrupts this motion to step off and throw to a base, or stay in contact and step towards a base and throw it is not a balk because the pitcher has not yet reached the point where he is commited to pitch. In the set position the pitcher may not throw to a base or step-off once he has some to his "stop" in the set position and then made a motion that commits him to pitch.

You are confusing the the act of first coming to the "stop," i.e. bringing the hands together, as part of "simulated pitching." You are not understanding the rule correctly.

[mr umpire]

Let me rephrase. If there is any doubt of whether this is a balk or not, then the ump shall go by the pitcher's intent. Here, his intent by simulating coming set while off the rubber is to deceive the runner and is a balk. It is the first rule of thumb an umpire goes by if there is any doubt in his mind as to whether the pitcher's actions are a balk or not. My first statement still holds true just poorly stated.

And, as the Roder interpretation stated, when he is in the motion of coming set while not on the rubber, he is in the act of pitching while not on the rubber(straddling it) which is 8.05(g). I understand the rule and the comment.

If he interrupts his coming set motion to throw to third while on the rubber, then it is no balk as long as he does it legally. B/c, he has not simulated any pitching motion while off the rubber. That is the entire thing. It is not about being committed to pitch. It is about being in the "act of pitching". He simulates pitching while off the rubber. Taking his signs off the rubber does not simulate pitching. Coming set or in the act of coming set simulates the act of pitching. He can't pitch the ball to the plate until he comes set in the stretch position with runners on. Which is why coming set is considered in the act by Roder.

This only applies if you missed taking the signs off the rubber as in 8.01. First thing, though, is to catch that and prevent this whole mess. Tell him to take his signs on the rubber. After that, some umpires may have him ejected next time. I will only go with the ejection if he keeps doing and I finally get tired of telling him, which may vary how many times from game to game.