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heyblue26
03-05-2011, 11:45 AM
A player has been removed from the game for symptoms of a concussion, and the player is approved to return to play again in the game. Now a few plays later, the player is once again showing signs of a potential concussion. What should be done?

This came up in a disscussion while having a few cold ones a few have said that they wouldn't let the player participate. and a few others said that the player should be sent off for a evaluation what would you say.

Scuzzyfeller
03-05-2011, 03:11 PM
A player has been removed from the game for symptoms of a concussion, and the player is approved to return to play again in the game. Now a few plays later, the player is once again showing signs of a potential concussion. What should be done?

This came up in a disscussion while having a few cold ones a few have said that they wouldn't let the player participate. and a few others said that the player should be sent off for a evaluation what would you say.

Just my 2 cents bud...but if "removed" due to concussion "symptoms"...quite simply....he's done for this game....not on my watch sir!

I'm pretty certain that would be the strong consensus among this board!

Regards,

Scuzz

Rich_Ives
03-05-2011, 03:47 PM
A player has been removed from the game for symptoms of a concussion, and the player is approved to return to play again in the game. Now a few plays later, the player is once again showing signs of a potential concussion. What should be done?

This came up in a disscussion while having a few cold ones a few have said that they wouldn't let the player participate. and a few others said that the player should be sent off for a evaluation what would you say.

What rules? What is the league's rule?

If you're using straight OBR you have no say in the matter.

As for "done for the day" - that is only in certain rule sets - is it in yours? Is the person who approved him to return able to do so by rule? If so, you have no say. You should call it to his attention, but it isn't your call.

If it's Kim Jong Il let him back into the game and have the catcher put the target in harm's way.

kyle_jt
03-05-2011, 04:22 PM
Depends on which hat I'm wearing.

My umpire hat says I have no say in the matter.

My Dad hat says he's done for the day, and his parents need to get him looked at ASAP.

I've gone through concussion, with two mask shots, flush ones, within a couple of innings. I thought I was fine at the time, but I really wasn't. The cobwebs didn't blow out for a couple of weeks. My daughter suffered two within a couple weeks of each other, and the second one was down right scary. I'm very aware of what a blow to the dome can do.

My Dad hat will take over in a kids game. One way, or another, he's done for the day.

ggchavez
03-05-2011, 04:25 PM
By NFHS rule, a player must be removed if he displays signs of a concussion. He cannot return unless cleared by a health care professional.

Rich_Ives
03-05-2011, 09:12 PM
By NFHS rule, a player must be removed if he displays signs of a concussion. He cannot return unless cleared by a health care professional.

heyblue26 is in Korea - they don't play FED there.

AND he said the player was approved to re-enter.

Most youth ball other than HS in the US os played under OBR based rules. Absent a state law on concussions, it will be neceessary to consult with each organization as to what their rules are.

heyblue26
03-05-2011, 11:48 PM
heyblue26 is in Korea - they don't play FED there.

AND he said the player was approved to re-enter.

Most youth ball other than HS in the US os played under OBR based rules. Absent a state law on concussions, it will be neceessary to consult with each organization as to what their rules are.

Rich; Yes am in Korea and we do play NFHS here but it is a short season. Yes In my OP it says that he was removed from the game for symptoms of a concussion and that the player was approved to return to play. But a few plays later the player is once again showing signs of a potential concussion. I say below:

choices are:

a. Nothing
b. player should be sent off for evaluation
c. player should not be able to participate
d. A report should be files with state office.

I agree that he is done and not participate for the day period and player should be sent off for Evaluation. Why I say (b) because of the signs of concussion.

bobjenkins
03-06-2011, 05:34 PM
Rich; Yes am in Korea and we do play NFHS here but it is a short season. Yes In my OP it says that he was removed from the game for symptoms of a concussion and that the player was approved to return to play. But a few plays later the player is once again showing signs of a potential concussion.

Send him off again.

heyblue26
03-06-2011, 08:20 PM
If it's Kim Jong Il let him back into the game and have the catcher put the target in harm's way.

I agree with that One

cajunyankee
03-07-2011, 03:36 PM
Yep. Send him off again.
I agree that I may be operating outside of my area of responsibility here but if there's a kid on my field that is displaying symptoms of concussion (such as I know them), he's not playing.

I've heard it suggested that the umpire 'hear' the kid curse at someone and eject him if it comes to it.
WHo can argue? The kid's got a concussion. He doesn't remember :);););)

All kidding aside, a concussed player is getting off of my field one way or another.

yawetag
03-07-2011, 05:12 PM
At my state rules interpretation meeting yesterday, it was stated that the coach is responsible for ensuring the proper health-care professional has evaluated his player. The video specifically stated that if a coach claims a player has been cleared, the umpire can allow him to re-enter "without liability."

I asked for the statement to be in writing so I can hand it to my lawyer. :)

alex7
03-07-2011, 06:29 PM
Surprisingly, we were told the same thing here in southern Oregon. If the coach says a medical person has cleared the player, then the player has been cleared. We don't look at notes and determine whether they are legit or not.

yawetag
03-07-2011, 06:59 PM
Surprisingly, we were told the same thing here in southern Oregon. If the coach says a medical person has cleared the player, then the player has been cleared. We don't look at notes and determine whether they are legit or not.

To be honest, I would ask the coach who cleared the player, and write it down on the lineup card. When I get home, I'm filing a Special Report to the state (and an email to my association). This way, if anything happens down the line, I've got my side submitted to the state.

rtmueller
03-07-2011, 07:28 PM
there is a new 'emphasis' in federation this year. this is how i understand it.
if the the player is knocked out, wobbling on his feet, staring off into the distance, you, as the umpire can take him out of the game. at that point, he cannot re-enter the game without a dr's note.
if the coach or trainer takes him out, he may return --- assuming he was a starter --- at any point in the contest.
our regional rules interpreter cautioned us not to overreact and send a player off unless there were obvious symptoms that the coach was about to overlook.
just my 2 cents.

Ozzy
03-07-2011, 09:04 PM
If you think that a player may be "not right" after a blow to the head, simply put it on the coach.

Batter takes a pitch to the helmet, says he's okay but seems to be "out of it"....
"TIME! Coach, you need to evaluate your player!".
Coach looks over the player and says that he is good to go. Batter stumbles on a practice swing......
"Coach, you need to evaluate your player!"

Sooner or later, they get the message. This works in FED, NCAA & OBR as it shows that you, the official recognize a problem and have notified the coach to evaluate the problem.

This all came about three years ago when an argument ensued in a FED game in which the official (in CT) said that in his opinion, the player suffered a concussion and should be removed from the game. The coach argued that the official was not medically trained (the official was not) and not qualified to make such a decision. The 3 representatives to the State Board came up with this idea of putting the "decision" on the coach by being a pain in the butt about it. Our attorney said that this was a perfect way to get the onus off the official and put the problem where it belongs - on the coach and the school.

tclowrance
03-07-2011, 09:35 PM
By NFHS rule, a player must be removed if he displays signs of a concussion. He cannot return unless cleared by a health care professional.

That's what I was going to say.
Now what are the odds of a neurosurgeon being in the crowd.
So, In Texas High school baseball, he is done for the day.

yawetag
03-07-2011, 10:15 PM
That's what I was going to say.
Now what are the odds of a neurosurgeon being in the crowd.
So, In Texas High school baseball, he is done for the day.

Has Texas decided that only neurosurgeons fall under the "health-care professional" title?

bnumpire
03-07-2011, 11:45 PM
Here is the way we are told to handle it in Illinois:

1. Address protocol with coaches in pre-game conference

2. Send the player off, inform the coach that player is exhibiting signs of a head injury and will not be allowed to participate until cleared by approved health care personel (in Illinois, a certified athletic trainer, M.D. or D.O.)

3. File a Special Report with IHSA irregardless if the kid returns or not

To get further clarification, I emailed the IHSA Director of Officials about if a kid is cleared to returned still exhibiting signs and was told to send the player off a second time, third time, etc. if I felt as an official that concussion-like signs/symptoms persisted and to include all the information in the report.