Missed 2B and missed tag - Mechanic help

[sdix00]

Please comment on the mechanics in this play.
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_3_1.jsp?mid=200707132083764&vid=7758&gid=2007/07/12/detmlb-seamlb-1&v=2&id=584664&w=2007/open/tp/archive07/071207_detsea_beltre_3rbi_tp_350.wmv

Situation:
Bases loaded, 2 out.
Batter singles to RF.
R3 Scores.
F9 fires home not in time to get R2 as R2 scores.
**Here comes my question**
F2 fires to F6 and F6 misses the TAG on BR at 2B AND BR OVERSLIDES AND MISSES 2B.
*U2 gives the SAFE mechanic
BR recovers and continues to 3B where he is SAFE.
When the ball is put back in play, Defense properly appeals that BR missed 2B and BR is declared OUT.

I noticed that U2 gave the safe mechanic even though BR over-slid AND missed 2B. I understand BR has acquired 2B. What I do not understand is why U2 gives the SAFE mechanic.

I have read several threads regarding
1. Missed 1B (equivalent to a FORCE play) - Give SAFE mech if BR beats the throw.
2. Missed HP on a FORCE play - Give SAFE mech if R3 beats the throw.
3. Missed HP and a missed TAG - Make no mechanic until you have something to call.

I cannot seem to find the most accepted (or absolute perfect) mechanic on a missed TAG and missed 2B. I always assumed this should be the same mechanics as Missed HP and a Missed Tag. But this is not what U2 did.

Comments?

[txump74]

He was signaling that he missed the tag not that he was safe at 2nd. Once he acquires 2nd he is considered safe until an appeal... this would be true on any base...

1. yes
2. yes
3. No if there is a tag attempt and he misses the tag you signal safe (because he missed the tag not because he touch home) then if the catcher either runs over and tags him again or there is an appeal you make your call...

The video showed a great mechanic, a great call and how to handle it.... but be ready to circle the wagons

[Pete_Booth]

I noticed that U2 gave the safe mechanic even though BR over-slid AND missed 2B. I understand BR has acquired 2B. What I do not understand is why U2 gives the SAFE mechanic.

If U2 does not give the safe sign then U2 has just told the defense "hey guys R2 missed the base" and therefore, tips the balance of power and in a way becomes the 10th man on defense.

In a nusthell when there is a play on a runner we have to signal something. if the runner beats the play and the defense misses the tag, we signal safe until appealed. How do we know the defense saw the same as us. It's up to them to be alert.

How many games have you umpired in where you saw a runner miss a base or bases and the defense was not paying attention.

The reason Home Plate is different is because there is no other base for the runner to go to.

Pete Booth

[txump74]

The reason Home Plate is different is because there is no other base for the runner to go to.

Pete Booth

I would disagree home is different... if the player make an attempt to tag the runner (2 ft) up the 3base line and misses are you going signal that he is safe at home or the tag was missed. You need to treat it the same... the catcher needs to know if he got him or not especially if there are other runners... to make no call can cause the action to stop while everyone is waiting for you to make a call...

and for you guys that point at home when a run scores (when there is no play)... stop it! What do you do if the runner does not touch home?

[Pete_Booth]

[QUOTE=txump74;116163]I would disagree home is different... if the player make an attempt to tag the runner (2 ft) up the 3base line and misses are you going signal that he is safe at home or the tag was missed. You need to treat it the same... the catcher needs to know if he got him or not especially if there are other runners... to make no call can cause the action to stop while everyone is waiting for you to make a call...

Here is what I am talking about that is different at home plate vs the other bases.

R2 B1 singles.

R2 rounds third and heads for home. R2 slides (misses the plate) and F2 misses the tag attempt.

the proper mechanic on a TAG attempt at home plate where the runner misses the base and the fielder misses the tag is for the PU to say nothing.

You are talking about a totally different situation. In your sitch the runner has NOT reached the plate yet so the umpire has to signal something on the tag attempt. if he missed the tag then you give the safe sign.

Pete Booth

[Richard_Siegel]

Please comment .....
I cannot seem to find the most accepted (or absolute perfect) mechanic on a missed TAG and missed 2B. I always assumed this should be the same mechanics as Missed HP and a Missed Tag. But this is not what U2 did.

Comments?

It all boils down to this one simple concept:

Umpires treat runners who miss a base* exactly the same as they would if the runner had touched the base. When and if there is a proper appeal we rule accordingly.

* or a runner who leaves a base too soon on a caugnt fly ball.

[sdix00]

It all boils down to this one simple concept:

Umpires treat runners who miss a base* exactly the same as they would if the runner had touched the base. When and if there is a proper appeal we rule accordingly.

* or a runner who leaves a base too soon on a caugnt fly ball.

So Richard, if we are treating a 'runner who missed HP as if he had touched HP' , then we should be calling the runner SAFE at HP? I do not think you meant to imply this, as I have read multiple posts by you and others that maintain that no signal is to be given. I assume when you say BASE, you mean BASE, not to include HP. Is this correct?


Pete:
I now appreciate that HP is different because there are no more bases to run to. You are basically saying that we treat a runner 'off the plate' differently than a runner 'off the bag', as a runner 'off the bag' needs to get back to the bag or move to the next bag, but a runner 'off the plate' can simply stroll to the dugout.

Let me know if I am reading this incorrectly.


Finally -
Is there a citation for these different situations?

[Richard_Siegel]

So Richard, if we are treating a 'runner who missed HP as if he had touched HP' , then we should be calling the runner SAFE at HP? I do not think you meant to imply this, as I have read multiple posts by you and others that maintain that no signal is to be given. I assume when you say BASE, you mean BASE, not to include HP. Is this correct?

The ONLY exception is an runner who misses HP and there is a tag attempted on his BODY at HP and that tag fails to retire the runner. We stay silent as the play is not over yet. If the catcher makes no futher attempt to tag the runner and runner makes no further attempt to touch HP we then will give a SAFE mechanic, as per the method I posted before: Umpires treat runners who miss a base exactly the same as they would if the runner had touched the base. When and if there is a proper appeal we rule accordingly. The defense can still appeal, however.

If there is a forced runner who misses HP and there is a tag attempted on the PLATE is fails because the thrown to F2 is LATE. We do NOT stay silent and call the runner "Safe!" even if the runner missed the base. The defense can still appeal, however.

If there is a forced runner who misses HP and there is a tag attempted on the PLATE and that tag fails to retire the runner (because F2 is "off the base"). We do NOT stay silent and call the runner "Safe! Off the base" even if the runner missed the base. The defense can still appeal, however.

[Pete_Booth]

Pete:
I now appreciate that HP is different because there are no more bases to run to. You are basically saying that we treat a runner 'off the plate' differently than a runner 'off the bag', as a runner 'off the bag' needs to get back to the bag or move to the next bag, but a runner 'off the plate' can simply stroll to the dugout.

Let me know if I am reading this incorrectly.

Almost - It depends upon the play.

Your OP was about a TAG attempt.

If there is a FORCE play at home then home plate is treated EXACTLY the same as a force play at any other base.

Example:

Bases juiced

Ground ball to F4 who throws to F2 to get the Force on R3.

R3 beats the play but misses the plate. In this type play the PU will signal safe just as he would if the play were made at second or third base because the runner is safe unless appealed.

Finally -
Is there a citation for these different situations?[/QUOTE]

You will not find a citation in the rule book but you will find it in mechanic manuals.

Pete Booth