Balk or not

[blue_young]

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11267121

According to announcers, whose word can be taken with a grain of salt, Hoye motioned to Maddon that he called the balk for Garzas shoulder movement.

Now at the NFHS level, that is alright before you come to the set. Im probably dead wrong about this, but I did not see the balk.

[mr umpire]

I believe the balk was more for a 'start and stop' one. At that level, minor movements can draw a balk call. Not one that we will be calling probably. And, one that many MLB ones probably won't call either. But, if giving no leeway whatsoever, he did balk b/c his left shoulder does twitch. And, that can easily be seen as starting to come set and then stopping.

That is what I believe he got called for.

[missouriump]

The pitcher had not come set. It looks like he simply shook off a sign. I don't see the balk.

[ump_24]

I believe the balk was more for a 'start and stop' one. At that level, minor movements can draw a balk call. Not one that we will be calling probably. And, one that many MLB ones probably won't call either. But, if giving no leeway whatsoever, he did balk b/c his left shoulder does twitch. And, that can easily be seen as starting to come set and then stopping.

That is what I believe he got called for.

I concur

[thunderheads]

I believe the balk was more for a 'start and stop' one. At that level, minor movements can draw a balk call. Not one that we will be calling probably. And, one that many MLB ones probably won't call either. But, if giving no leeway whatsoever, he did balk b/c his left shoulder does twitch. And, that can easily be seen as starting to come set and then stopping.

That is what I believe he got called for.

It's really subtle, but when he shakes off, jusssst before, you can see him move his shoulder ever so slightly to the right, as if he's starting his set... ( :02) ...

[Baloo]

The pitcher had not come set. It looks like he simply shook off a sign. I don't see the balk.

I agree his hands were not together so I see no set. No set = no balk.

[thunderheads]

I agree his hands were not together so I see no set. No set = no balk.

But if he "starts" to go into his set, and stops, that's still a start-stop, yes?

[Baloo]

But if he "starts" to go into his set, and stops, that's still a start-stop, yes?

Yes but from the angle of the video I didn't see him start his set so obviously the UIC has a better view of that.

[mr umpire]

Yes but from the angle of the video I didn't see him start his set so obviously the UIC has a better view of that.
Hand movement doesn't always indicate the beginning of "coming set". It can be started with the foot moving, body moves first, or (in this case) the front shoulder moves just before the hands do.

His front shoulder begins to move toward 3B as he is shaking off the sign. It is subtle but does move. That is what the balk is being called for b/c it probably looks much worse from the front than the back.

[jmurray]

"Started and stopped" violates this comment of 8.01(b):

"Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side; from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01(b) without interruption and in one continuous motion."

There is no balk penalty for that. But I do call the balk for more egregious twitches like that and coaches will accept "Started and stopped" as the reason.
I, however, am really balking a feint without a step.