Force or Appeal?

[pagraber]

Little League Minors game situation doesn't really matter, except that the parents were more upset because the play in question would have been the game winning play.
The game was tied in the bottom of the 4th (game was past the time limit) when the first batter hit a bomb about 2 ft inside the right field foul line. As the PU with a VERY novice BU, I first confirmed the ball was fair, then watch the batter/runner miss first base as he rounded it. He made it all the way home safely. Once the throw finally made it to the infield the defensive team threw the ball to first to "appeal" that the runner missed first. (Time was never called, so the ball was still in play)

I called the batter out, but here is my question. Was he out due to a force play at first even though he had passed it, or is he out on appeal since he had safely passed additional bases?

I particularly enjoyed the irate father afterward that told me it wasn't my call to make and that he "knew I wasn't watching the runner." Sometimes you wish just the kids were there without their parents.

[Dano]

Once the Batter/Runner or any other Runner has passed over a base, they are now considered to have acquired that base regardless of touching.

Therefore

This would have been an appeal and not a force out.

HOWEVER

If there were 2 outs and other runners involved, the other runs would NOT have scored merely because this would have been the last out recorded at first base.

[Rich_Ives]

Little League Minors game situation doesn't really matter, except that the parents were more upset because the play in question would have been the game winning play.
The game was tied in the bottom of the 4th (game was past the time limit) when the first batter hit a bomb about 2 ft inside the right field foul line. As the PU with a VERY novice BU, I first confirmed the ball was fair, then watch the batter/runner miss first base as he rounded it. He made it all the way home safely. Once the throw finally made it to the infield the defensive team threw the ball to first to "appeal" that the runner missed first. (Time was never called, so the ball was still in play)

I called the batter out, but here is my question. Was he out due to a force play at first even though he had passed it, or is he out on appeal since he had safely passed additional bases?

I particularly enjoyed the irate father afterward that told me it wasn't my call to make and that he "knew I wasn't watching the runner." Sometimes you wish just the kids were there without their parents.


It's an appeal of a missed base.

Key: Did the defense verbally assert they were appealing that he missed first? Hint: They have to.

AND -Since it was a HR over the fence the ball was dead and had to be put back into play BEFORE they could appeal. Bet: You didn't do that.

If it had been the third out it would be considered as the batter-runner being out before touching first and no runs would count.

Technical note - the batter-runner at first is not a force. It just looks like one and is treated like one.

So basically the appeal probably wasn't valid when attempted and should not have been upheld until they did it properly.

[polar1955]

It's an appeal of a missed base.

Key: Did the defense verbally assert they were appealing that he missed first? Hint: They have to.

AND -Since it was a HR over the fence the ball was dead and had to be put back into play BEFORE they could appeal. Bet: You didn't do that.

If it had been the third out it would be considered as the batter-runner being out before touching first and no runs would count.

Technical note - the batter-runner at first is not a force. It just looks like one and is treated like one.

So basically the appeal probably wasn't valid when attempted and should not have been upheld until they did it properly.


"the batter-runner at first is not a force"

Absolutely correct.

[pagraber]

It's an appeal of a missed base.

Key: Did the defense verbally assert they were appealing that he missed first? Hint: They have to.

AND -Since it was a HR over the fence the ball was dead and had to be put back into play BEFORE they could appeal. Bet: You didn't do that.

Technical note - the batter-runner at first is not a force. It just looks like one and is treated like one.

So basically the appeal probably wasn't valid when attempted and should not have been upheld until they did it properly.

The ball was not a home run, so the ball was never dead (just a long hit to right field with a slow right fielder) and the defensive team did say that they were appealing that the runner missed first. SO...the ball was live and I called him out on appeal...so all was correctly called....it just hit me later whether it mattered that they appealed it or just stepped on first. Thanks for the feedback.

[Dano]

The ball was not a home run, so the ball was never dead (just a long hit to right field with a slow right fielder) and the defensive team did say that they were appealing that the runner missed first. SO...the ball was live and I called him out on appeal...so all was correctly called....it just hit me later whether it mattered that they appealed it or just stepped on first. Thanks for the feedback.


Probably a little confusion when you said he "hit a bomb".

[pagraber]

Sorry....I realize that clearly when I read it that I would have thought the same. Thanks for the great responses. I was looking for a good board for great feedback and help. looks like I've found one.

[bobjenkins]

Once the Batter/Runner or any other Runner has passed over a base, they are now considered to have acquired that base regardless of touching.

Therefore

This would have been an appeal and not a force out.



An appeal out can ALSO be a force out. (If R1 had missed second in the OP, the appeal would also be a force.)

Key: Did the defense verbally assert they were appealing that he missed first? Hint: They have to.

It needn't be verbal, it just needs to be obvious.

[Rich_Ives]

An appeal out can ALSO be a force out. (If R1 had missed second in the OP, the appeal would also be a force.)



It needn't be verbal, it just needs to be obvious.

Would you consider this particular play/appeal obvious? Many would not.

[bobjenkins]

Would you consider this particular play/appeal obvious? Many would not.

As I read the OP, the ball was first thrown to the infield, and then thrown to first. I'd likely consider that obvious.

If F3 was the cut-off man, and then dejectedly kicked first as he was walking off the field, then I wouldn't consider that obvious.

[catoblue]

Little League Minors game situation doesn't really matter, except that the parents were more upset because the play in question would have been the game winning play.
The game was tied in the bottom of the 4th (game was past the time limit) when the first batter hit a bomb about 2 ft inside the right field foul line. As the PU with a VERY novice BU, I first confirmed the ball was fair, then watch the batter/runner miss first base as he rounded it. He made it all the way home safely. Once the throw finally made it to the infield the defensive team threw the ball to first to "appeal" that the runner missed first. (Time was never called, so the ball was still in play)

I called the batter out, but here is my question. Was he out due to a force play at first even though he had passed it, or is he out on appeal since he had safely passed additional bases?

I particularly enjoyed the irate father afterward that told me it wasn't my call to make and that he "knew I wasn't watching the runner." Sometimes you wish just the kids were there without their parents.

Since this was the first batter, we're not concerned with any preceding runners scoring or not, his run comes off the books when he's called out on the appeal.

If there had been runners on with less than 2 out, the preceding runners score. BR is out on the appeal.

With runners on and 2 outs, BR is 3rd out before touching 1B (even on appeal), no runs score.