Running on 2 strikes confuses EVERYONE

[jbonnot]

My 1st year umpiring-have umped form Minor League Baseball and Softball all the way to Junior League Softball as the plate umpire. I am a believer in jumping in with both feet. :p

Last night was a wild one. Major League Softball 11-12 yo. New dropped 3rd strike rule this year.

Visting team batting. R1 and R2. 0 outs. Catcher drops strike 3. BR takes off. She is out before she left the box as 1B was occupied. R1 and R2 advance. Here's where it gets interesting.

Now we have R2 and R3. Strike 2 is dropped by catcher. Fans and coaches start yelling at BR to Run. She takes off. R2 and R3 both advance scoring a run. I call BR back to the plate as there are only 2 strikes.
First question...Should BR be called out for running on 2nd strike?
Second question...What happens to the runners?

3rd base coach did put his runners back on base. I didn't however force this. It was his call.

Now it gets fun. BR hits ball to F4. 4-3 2nd out. R3 scores. Home team starts to vacate the field. I look at my indicator and notify everyone there are 2 outs. Home books inform me there are 3 outs. BU says he has 3 outs. Field is vacated. I examine home books and then examine visiting books as I will get both sides of the story. Home books show #8 as batting for the 3rd out. #8 is standing in the entrance to the dugout, bat in hand and has never batted. In our league, ground rules say home books are right. I made a very unpopular decision and overruled home books because the home books 3rd out hadn't set foot in the batter's box.

I am almost certain, both BU and Home books wrote down 2nd out when BR ran with 2 strikes and then home books moved to the next batter.

All was not in vain, however. I did learn. Next time if there is a confusion, make sure the bookkeepers have it corrected before moving on. Now I'll sit back and enjoy the discussion.

[bobjenkins]

Now we have R2 and R3. Strike 2 is dropped by catcher. Fans and coaches start yelling at BR to Run. She takes off. R2 and R3 both advance scoring a run. I call BR back to the plate as there are only 2 strikes.
First question...Should BR be called out for running on 2nd strike?
Second question...What happens to the runners?

1) No.

2) They stay at the advance base. Do not allow the O-coach to put them back on base.

[Richard_Siegel]

.....First question...Should BR be called out for running on 2nd strike?
No. Everyone knew, or should have known the count and that the batter only had two strikes.

Second question...What happens to the runners?
Leave them where there are. Score the run. They did nothing illegal.

3rd base coach did put his runners back on base. I didn't however force this. It was his call.....

You let the 3BC undermine your authority. "Being nice" is not in the rules. If the runners advanced legally he cannot take it back.

A couple of years ago I saw a batter-runner miss HP after he hit a HR. This was Senior LL. The catcher saw it too and when the ball was put back into play he called for the ball and made a proper appeal. I declared the runner out and took the run off the board. There was a brief but nasty discussion about it with the offensive head coach. Of course the BR called out was his son. The defensive head coach, who was friends with the OHC, felt bad about this and approached me in the middle of the "discussion" to announce he was rescinding his catcher's appeal and he wanted the run to count. Told him that he had not standing in this matter and sent him back to his dugout. I repeated that the run would not count. I found out later in the week that the OHC told the DHC quietly behind my back that “kept the run in the book” even though the out still counted. I don’t know how he could do that since he won the game anyway. And that run would not have mattered.

[catoblue]

don’t know how he could do that since he won the game anyway. And that run would not have mattered. [/FONT][/COLOR]

If I had to guess, it has to do with "standings". Once you get to a W-L tie, the tiebreaker is often the runs for/against differential. I figure he was just "helping his buddy out".

[Richard_Siegel]

If I had to guess, it has to do with "standings". Once you get to a W-L tie, the tiebreaker is often the runs for/against differential. I figure he was just "helping his buddy out".

When I found out about the run the guy "gave back" I reported the proper score of the game to the League coordinator just for that reason. I don't know where it went from there.

[buddyw]

It sounds like OP may have a little problem with making sure he is the authority out there. First like the other guy said, don't let the coach send his runners back. It was the right call. Second if you know there is two outs you run out there and talk to the other ump. I would never check the books. Too me it makes you look like you don't what is going on. Go out there and figure it out. Most times you and the other ump can figure it out.

Sounds like you need to be a little more vocal. Anytime I have seen that there is a question of counts or outs it is because a new ump doesn't speak up, Don't worry that is the easy part. YOu will figure it out.