Rule 7.05 - Throwing Glove or Hat at Ball

[p1timeblue]

What's the mechanic for this? Let's say R1, R2: F3 throws hat and touches a fair ball before anyone advances to the next base. (Penalty: Three bases). Play continues. R2 scores, R1 tagged out at third and enters dugout, B/R tagged out at 2B, then play finally ceases.

After play stops, do you call "Time" or keep the ball alive? Then do you publicly announce R1 to leave the dugout, touch third, then touch home, and then send B/R to 2B and then 3B? Or do you simply say "R1 is not out, he scores. B/R is not out, he gets third" and be done with it?

Or should you not have called anyone out at all during the entire play?

Discuss, and thanks.

[mr umpire]

My guess would be something like Type B OBS. Leave the ball live until a runner gets out before they reach the base they are protected to. Just like a balk. Ball becomes "dead" as soon as any runner is put out before they reach the base they are protected to including the BR.

So, thrown glove hits batted ball. Point and say "That's detached equipment!" If any runner gets out before reaching their third base, call "Time" and put all runners where they are awarded to. If none get out, the ball stays "live" until all play ceases. If any of the runners didn't reach their awarded base, call "Time" and put them where they belong.

[Brotherhood_of_Blue]

OBR. 3 Bases to the B/R, home at his own peril. Ball remains in play unless any awarded runner stops at which point the umpire will call Time and award any bases.

[thunderheads]

detached equipment is a delayed dead-ball......

I've never had this, and never really spent a ton of time with it....but...

[BrianC14]

There was an MLB game yesterday where this happened (detached equipment) - - saw it on ESPN but the teams escape me... dribbler up the 3B line, F1 and F2 converged on it, F1 touched in in fair territory but then dropped it, and by then it was too late to make a play on B/R... but F2 scoops it up with his mask.

D'oh! 8O

Move the runners...

[backinBlue]

It Happened in the Mariners vs A's , they must have ruled the slight pick up by the pitcher meant the ball was no longer a batted ball. They awarded 2 bases 7.05d thrown ball provision

[BrianC14]

It Happened in the Mariners vs A's , they must have ruled the slight pick up by the pitcher meant the ball was no longer a batted ball. They awarded 2 bases 7.05d thrown ball provision

That was it, thanks.
I don't know if SportCenter showed the base award (don't think they did, anyway) - right call though, since F1 had fielded it.

[rpumpire]

That was it, thanks.
I don't know if SportCenter showed the base award (don't think they did, anyway) - right call though, since F1 had fielded it.

I disagree that the base award was correct. The ball deflected off the third baseman's hand as he attempted to field it. It was still a batted ball when F2 used his mask to corral it, not a thrown ball. The base award should have been three bases.

[heyblue26]

I disagree that the base award was correct. The ball deflected off the third baseman's hand as he attempted to field it. It was still a batted ball when F2 used his mask to corral it, not a thrown ball. The base award should have been three bases.

You need to re read the rule and if this will help here is a Knotty Problem of Baseball. A catcher, trying for a pickoff, catches a runner off third base and a rundown starts. Heading down the line, the catcher whips off his mask just as the thrid baseman tosses the ball. The throw, slightly wild, is off to the catcher's right. since he still has the mask in his right hand, he reaches out with it and spears the ball. Then he throws to the third sacker, who makes the putout. Question Is the out legal?

Answer: NO. When ever a defensive player deliberately touches a thrown ball with any part of his uniform detached from its proper place, all runners are entitled to two bases. The runner therefore, is permitted to score. (7.05d) as it has been stated. this should help clear up why you disagree.

[bobjenkins]

You need to re read the rule and if this will help here is a Knotty Problem of Baseball. A catcher, trying for a pickoff, catches a runner off third base and a rundown starts. Heading down the line, the catcher whips off his mask just as the thrid baseman tosses the ball. The throw, slightly wild, is off to the catcher's right. since he still has the mask in his right hand, he reaches out with it and spears the ball. Then he throws to the third sacker, who makes the putout. Question Is the out legal?

Answer: NO. When ever a defensive player deliberately touches a thrown ball with any part of his uniform detached from its proper place, all runners are entitled to two bases. The runner therefore, is permitted to score. (7.05d) as it has been stated. this should help clear up why you disagree.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the Knotty Problem.

The issue in the OP is whether the ball was still a batted ball (3-base award) or had become (the equivalent of) a thrown ball (2-base award). Either the umpires decided the latter or they kicked it.

[heyblue26]

I don't think anyone disagrees with the Knotty Problem.

The issue in the OP is whether the ball was still a batted ball (3-base award) or had become (the equivalent of) a thrown ball (2-base award). Either the umpires decided the latter or they kicked it.

I went back an re-read the OP and yes I agree to what was being asked on the base award either three or two base award. My mistake and Thanks.

[BrianC14]

I don't think anyone disagrees with the Knotty Problem.

The issue in the OP is whether the ball was still a batted ball (3-base award) or had become (the equivalent of) a thrown ball (2-base award). Either the umpires decided the latter or they kicked it.

Seems to me it was fielded, and then dropped. At that point, it's no longer a batted ball.

[rpumpire]

Seems to me it was fielded, and then dropped. At that point, it's no longer a batted ball.

It wouldn't be a batted ball for the purposes of the rule regarding it striking a runner, but why wouldn't it be for the purposes of this detached equipment rule? It couldn't be considered a pitched ball or a thrown ball, so considering the deflected ball still a "fair ball", which is the terminology in the rule (7.05b) would only seem to make sense.

I couldn't find any guidance in the MLBUM; it just merely restates what is said in the rule. Perhaps those who have other manuals could find something that may be of help.

[bobjenkins]

It wouldn't be a batted ball for the purposes of the rule regarding it striking a runner, but why wouldn't it be for the purposes of this detached equipment rule? It couldn't be considered a pitched ball or a thrown ball, so considering the deflected ball still a "fair ball", which is the terminology in the rule (7.05b) would only seem to make sense.

I couldn't find any guidance in the MLBUM; it just merely restates what is said in the rule. Perhaps those who have other manuals could find something that may be of help.

Suppose the ball had (through some miracle of physics) gone out of play. Two bases TOP or TODrop? That should help answer whether the detached equipment award should have been three bases or two.

[rpumpire]

Suppose the ball had (through some miracle of physics) gone out of play. Two bases TOP or TODrop? That should help answer whether the detached equipment award should have been three bases or two.

Using this same logic, suppose a ground ball up the middle that deflects off the pitcher to the shortstop who throws it out of play. The deflection doesn't change the status of the batted ball, except as regards the ball then striking a runner or umpire.

[BrianC14]

Suppose the ball had (through some miracle of physics) gone out of play. Two bases TOP or TODrop? That should help answer whether the detached equipment award should have been three bases or two.

Time of Drop? Never heard of that one....

[BrianC14]

It wouldn't be a batted ball for the purposes of the rule regarding it striking a runner, but why wouldn't it be for the purposes of this detached equipment rule? It couldn't be considered a pitched ball or a thrown ball, so considering the deflected ball still a "fair ball", which is the terminology in the rule (7.05b) would only seem to make sense.

I couldn't find any guidance in the MLBUM; it just merely restates what is said in the rule. Perhaps those who have other manuals could find something that may be of help.


"Paging Doctor Jaksa... paging Doctor Roder... will Doctor Jaksa and Doctor Roder please pick up a white courtesy phone..."

[BrianC14]

Using this same logic, suppose a ground ball up the middle that deflects off the pitcher to the shortstop who throws it out of play. The deflection doesn't change the status of the batted ball, except as regards the ball then striking a runner or umpire.

:confused: :confused:

You know, it really is possible to put a square peg into a round hole... you just have to use a hammer that's big enough.

If a train leaves Baltimore at 5:00, and a plane leaves Los Angeles at 3:00, what time will the little boy in the white T-shirt spill his chocolate ice cream cone? :)

[bobjenkins]

Using this same logic, suppose a ground ball up the middle that deflects off the pitcher to the shortstop who throws it out of play. The deflection doesn't change the status of the batted ball, except as regards the ball then striking a runner or umpire.

Right.

In the play at hand, did F5 field the ball and then drop it (it's no longer a batted ball so it's a two-base award) or did he not field the ball (it's still a batted ball so it's a three-base award). I didn't see the play, so I don't have an opinion, but this is the criterion I would use in making the award.

Time of Drop? Never heard of that one....

The same as TOT, except there's no "intentional propelling the ball to another player" (or however you'd choose to define throw.

[yawetag]

You know, it really is possible to put a square peg into a round hole... you just have to use a hammer that's big enough.

Or a round hole bigger than the square peg.

[heyblue26]

"Paging Doctor Jaksa... paging Doctor Roder... will Doctor Jaksa and Doctor Roder please pick up a white courtesy phone..."

BrianC14: That is really cool had a really good chuckle. But you're right J/R Manual is great reference to have.