If you kicked the call

[Richard_Siegel]

I personally disagree with the concept, "If you just kicked the call and know it let coach have his say more than normal.” In my opinion, even if you made a mistake it does not give a coach or player license to abuse you anymore than if you nailed the play. Whether you blew it or you nailed it, if it is a close play the coach will see it as if you kicked it.

If an umpire knows he kicked the call, he might offer the coach something vague like, “Bill, it was a VERY close play.” “It could have gone either way, but that’s what I saw. It is the right call.” “Bill, we had different angles on the play, I can only call it based on the angle I saw from.” Good coaches know those phrases are admissions that you a little unsure and might think you’re wrong, but you are not going to change the call. A good coach will know this and cut off the argument.

I can’t condone any situation where you might allow a coach have his say more than “normal.” Doing that sends out a message to him and to the other coach that you will sometimes take more crap. Following that idea, if the next inning you nail a close one and the coach comes out but now you shut him down quickly after allowing more than normal abuse in the previous inning, you will appear inconsistent and unapproachable. If you shut him down quickly, and then eject him, the coach will wonder why you let him go on and on complaining in the last inning but now he is ejected after 10 seconds this time.

What you allow a coach to say and how much you let him say should not change regardless of how good or bad you think your call was.

[ump_24]

I personally disagree with to concept, "If you just kicked the call and know it let coach have his say more than normal.” In my opinion, even if you made a mistake it does not give a coach or player license to abuse you anymore than if you nailed the play. Whether you blew it or you nailed it, if it is a close play the coach will see it as if you kicked it.

If an umpire knows he kicked the call, he might offer the coach something vague like, “Bill, it was a VERY close play.” “It could have gone either way, but that’s what I saw. It is the right call.” “Bill, we had different angles on the play, I can only call it based on the angle I saw from.” Good coaches know those phrases are admissions that you a little unsure and might think you’re wrong, but you are not going to change the call. A good coach will know this and cut off the argument.

I can’t condone any situation where you might allow a coach have his say more than “normal.” Doing that sends out a message to him and to the other coach that you will sometimes take more crap. Following that idea, if the next inning you nail a close one and the coach comes out but now you shut him down quickly after allowing more than normal abuse in the previous inning, you will appear inconsistent and unapproachable. If you shut him down quickly, and then eject him, the coach will wonder why you let him go on and on complaining in the last inning but now he is ejected after 10 seconds this time.

What you allow a coach to say and how much you let him say should not change regardless of how good or bad you think your call was.


I once read something that said when every one argument occurs, there are 49 other people watching how you handle it.

People who say that you should let a coach blow off more steam are most likely the same type of umpire who say the best of us are the ones who are never noticed.

Something I've mixed in on occasion is to humanize myself. For me sometimes, because of my age, I am written off purely as a know it all teenager; no matter how hard I try I can't shake that image. So when the big man comes huffing and puffing out of his bench, chances are I'm already beating myself up over it, so I'll tell him "hey, Jim, I'm really sorry you and your team feel that way, but I called it how I saw it....(insert rest of sentence).

We're all human and we all mess up. Don't let a mistake allow someone to push you face down into the mud and then drag you through it after that.

[dash_riprock]

I personally disagree with the concept, "If you just kicked the call and know it let coach have his say more than normal.” In my opinion, even if you made a mistake it does not give a coach or player license to abuse you anymore than if you nailed the play. Whether you blew it or you nailed it, if it is a close play the coach will see it as if you kicked it.

If an umpire knows he kicked the call, he might offer the coach something vague like, “Bill, it was a VERY close play.” “It could have gone either way, but that’s what I saw. It is the right call.” “Bill, we had different angles on the play, I can only call it based on the angle I saw from.” Good coaches know those phrases are admissions that you a little unsure and might think you’re wrong, but you are not going to change the call. A good coach will know this and cut off the argument.

I can’t condone any situation where you might allow a coach have his say more than “normal.” Doing that sends out a message to him and to the other coach that you will sometimes take more crap. Following that idea, if the next inning you nail a close one and the coach comes out but now you shut him down quickly after allowing more than normal abuse in the previous inning, you will appear inconsistent and unapproachable. If you shut him down quickly, and then eject him, the coach will wonder why you let him go on and on complaining in the last inning but now he is ejected after 10 seconds this time.

What you allow a coach to say and how much you let him say should not change regardless of how good or bad you think your call was.
I agree with everything except this: "A good coach will know this and cut off the argument."

[Richard_Siegel]

I agree with everything except this: "A good coach will know this and cut off the argument."

That's optimism.

Most coaches of recreational ball (dad's) are not savvy with that part of the game. However, experienced HS varsity and college coaches get it.

[Radwaste50]

That's optimism.

However, experienced HS varsity and college coaches get it.

Most not all

[nwsquid]

I made a call this past year, and the coach waited until between innings to discuss it with me. He was calm and told me his beef. I said I didn't see it the way he described, but it was quite possible. I just had to work with the angle I had.

Partner confirmed my kick after the game. 2 man, run down situation where he had to stay home, but for some reason it didn't affect me that I kicked it. I truly had to work with the angle I had on that play and the coach accepted it pretty quickly and moved on.

Kicking calls...good times...

[finnerty]

I once read something that said when every one argument occurs, there are 49 other people watching how you handle it.

People who say that you should let a coach blow off more steam are most likely the same type of umpire who say the best of us are the ones who are never noticed.

Something I've mixed in on occasion is to humanize myself. For me sometimes, because of my age, I am written off purely as a know it all teenager; no matter how hard I try I can't shake that image. So when the big man comes huffing and puffing out of his bench, chances are I'm already beating myself up over it, so I'll tell him "hey, Jim, I'm really sorry you and your team feel that way, but I called it how I saw it....(insert rest of sentence).

We're all human and we all mess up. Don't let a mistake allow someone to push you face down into the mud and then drag you through it after that.
Stay at it, man. Self respect comes first and you have it.

[Richard_Siegel]

I made a call this past year, and the coach waited until between innings to discuss it with me. He was calm and told me his beef. I said I didn't see it the way he described, but it was quite possible. I just had to work with the angle I had.

Partner confirmed my kick after the game. 2 man, run down situation where he had to stay home, but for some reason it didn't affect me that I kicked it. I truly had to work with the angle I had on that play and the coach accepted it pretty quickly and moved on.

Kicking calls...good times...

I have used the following when I felt the coach could handle it.

When he comes out to argue a call I think I might have missed I will AGREE with him. They can't stay upset with you when you are agreeing with them....well, not really.

HC: "Richard, I think my runner's foot was on the bag when he was tagged. Why did you call him out?"

ME: "Jerry, I agree that from the angle you saw it looked that way. I can understand why you feel that way. But from where I saw it I had the shortstop tagging him on the elbow before the foot touched the base."

Empathizing with his opinion helps defuse his anger. (That I learned from the book Verbal Judo). Then pointing out something that he didn't see will get him to rethink is position.

Sometimes a coach will point out something he saw to me that I might have missed (or lie about it). However, true that may or may not be, my response is that "I have to call the play by what I can see."

In a HS Varsity game a couple years ago I was the BU with R1 at 1B. I was at the B position when F1 threw a pick-off to 1B. I saw R1 diving back to the base. I saw the tag come down on R1's head as his body was still diving and his right hand had not yet reached the bag. I call him out.

The HC comes out to tell me, "Richard, I don't think you saw his left hand was on the base when he was tagged. Then his right hand touched the base afterward."

I replied, "Pete, I couldn't see his left hand at all from where I was. It was blocked from my view by his body. I agree that from the angle you were at you could see his right arm. You may be right. However, I have to call the play by what I can see."

At this point I was expecting Pete to ask me to get help from the PU. I would never get help myself on a pick-off without a coach asking, and then I probably wouldn't do it. However, I have worked dozens of games at this school for Pete and he is, perhaps, the most professional, smart and respectful HC I know. I have never had a problem with him. So when he asks for me to get help he probably was right and I was wrong. I wanted to give him the right call.
Then Pete surprised me. He said, “OK, Richard, thanks,” and walked back to the bench. After the game I asked Pete why he didn’t ask me to get help. He said, “I have been after that guy (the runner) to dive back to the base and reach with his right hand. I told him the umpire can’t see his left hand touching the base. He has been called out a few times for the same reason. Sooner or later he’ll learn. I came out only to confirm to him why he got called out. I don’t ask umpires to get help. Most of the time they won’t do it anyway.”

[ump_24]

Personally, I think the pick off at first from P3 / B is one of the toughest calls we have to make; action goes from a pure static position to a split second play that can literally be missed by the blink of an eye. Did I mention having to keep an eye on the pitcher nearly the entire time watching for a balk while moving towards firstbase? It's not exactly a lot of movement either, if you're lucky you can take one giant step before pivoting.

It truly is a limitation of the 2-Man system. With a little movement of their own, PU can have a great angle looking right down the line to assist if need be. IMO, this is a situation where BU can lean on PU if the reaction of one team's coach / manager and bench identify something probably just went wrong.

Richard, it sounds like "Pete" is a class act. We're all aware you are nothing short of one yourself. If all coaches would strive to model themselves after "Pete", I think it would make for a greater enjoyment of working the sport.

[heyblue26]

I have read what has been said here and agree with Richard and I have also been in that position and have kicked a call and have explained to the coach the angle that I had and what I saw. Have also agreed with the coach on a call and he accepted my explaination as no I do not believe that he tagged him and the way that I saw the play he was tagged after his right hand was on the bag.

[critterump1]

I personally disagree with the concept, "If you just kicked the call and know it let coach have his say more than normal.” In my opinion, even if you made a mistake it does not give a coach or player license to abuse you anymore than if you nailed the play. Whether you blew it or you nailed it, if it is a close play the coach will see it as if you kicked it.

If an umpire knows he kicked the call, he might offer the coach something vague like, “Bill, it was a VERY close play.” “It could have gone either way, but that’s what I saw. It is the right call.” “Bill, we had different angles on the play, I can only call it based on the angle I saw from.” Good coaches know those phrases are admissions that you a little unsure and might think you’re wrong, but you are not going to change the call. A good coach will know this and cut off the argument.

I can’t condone any situation where you might allow a coach have his say more than “normal.” Doing that sends out a message to him and to the other coach that you will sometimes take more crap. Following that idea, if the next inning you nail a close one and the coach comes out but now you shut him down quickly after allowing more than normal abuse in the previous inning, you will appear inconsistent and unapproachable. If you shut him down quickly, and then eject him, the coach will wonder why you let him go on and on complaining in the last inning but now he is ejected after 10 seconds this time.

What you allow a coach to say and how much you let him say should not change regardless of how good or bad you think your call was.

Reminds me of a call i made in fall ball high school. I blow it but i kept my call and stuck to it. after that innning the first base coach was going off on me. Another perosn in fans was shaking is head :eek: I never ejected him i ask the other coach after words if i blow they call he said i did. I was all well.

Now after that story i don't think anyone would let to coach go on than normal. ususally they will just do it no matter what.

[Richard_Siegel]

Reminds me of a call i made in fall ball high school. I blow it but i kept my call and stuck to it. after that inning the first base coach was going off on me. Another person in fans was shaking is head :eek: I never ejected him i ask the other coach after words if i blow they call he said i did. I was all well.

Now after that story i don't think anyone would let to coach go on than normal. usually they will just do it no matter what.

Base coaches do not exist. We should only allow a head coach to come out to question calls and we allow him to complain as long as he keeps his comments focused on the play and the call. However, we NEVER allow a base coach to be "going off on me." Base coaches often mistakenly think they are there to represent their manager in a dispute. They are they to coach runners, nothing more. If a base coach starts an argument, begins to complain or starts to "go off on you," you immediately warn him to "knock it off!" If he continues, you toss him out of the game.

[ump_24]

Base coaches do not exist. We should only allow a head coach to come out to question calls and we allow him to complain as long as he keeps his comments focused on the play and the call. However, we NEVER allow a base coach to be "going off on me." Base coaches often mistakenly think they are there to represent their manager in a dispute. They are they to coach runners, nothing more. If a base coach starts an argument, begins to complain or starts to "go off on you," you immediately warn him to "knock it off!" If he continues, you toss him out of the game.

Base coaches have a box for a reason.

If they're popping off while standing in it, execute what Richard says.

If they think they can cross the foul line while doing this, they've punched a ticket home.

IMO an exception to this would be if they are attempting to "save" a player, in which case, give the tiniest bit of extra leash, but remain stringent.

[semper_fi_72]

Reminds me of a call i made in fall ball high school. I blow it but i kept my call and stuck to it. after that innning the first base coach was going off on me. Another perosn in fans was shaking is head :eek: I never ejected him i ask the other coach after words if i blow they call he said i did. I was all well.

Now after that story i don't think anyone would let to coach go on than normal. ususally they will just do it no matter what.

Why would you ever ask the other coach if you blew a call!!!!!!!!!!
Did you just want to confirm that you blew it and make sure he knew that you knew you blew it.
To me that is a sign of weakness that will not earn you respect.
Don't ever worry about fans shaking their heads. On ever close call, half of them will agree with your call and the other half will disagree depending which side of the field they are on.
When it comes to fans, block them out, the are dumber than the Rats.
For Love of the Game...Engage the Mechanism!!!! :D

[Pete_Booth]

What you allow a coach to say and how much you let him say should not change regardless of how good or bad you think your call was.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Richard IMO, here-in lies the problem

OBR 9.02
(a) Any umpire’s decision which involves judgment, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decisions.

We all know that the part I underlined in BOLD is a crock. From the beginning of time managers were allowed to come out and argue. People see it on TV all the time which makes our jobs as amateurs that much more difficult.

PRO ball is BIG TIME money so the umpires on TV are going to take more. Just look at the play-offs. A given player has to do "something' REAL blatant (and even then) before the umpires would even think about ejecting him.

The last time I remember a BIG TIME player getting EJ'd was Roger Clemens when he was a member of the BOSOX playing the Angels in the ALCS.

So at least for PRO Umpires they do "take more' in the playoffs as opposed to regular season.

Thereore, in addition to what you posted IMO, the more interesting question is this

Do you put up with more if it's a HS Varsity Sectional Game / State Final then you would in the regular season?

If the answer to that is YES, then it stands to reason that we would allow a coach a little more lee-way (provided he didn't use profanity etc.) when we KNOW we kicked the call. By more lee-way I do not mean drag the game out.

Also, IMO, it's much easier to difuse the problem when you are the BU as opposed to the PU. Let's say you as BU kicked a call on the bases that was the third out. As BU you simply head down the RF line. Most coaches will not "come after you" because that shows that a coach is aggressive and if he does "chase you" it's an easy EJ.

The problem is if you are the PU. You can go get a drink or something but unlike the BU who is some 50-70 ft. down the RF line there is only so far that you can go.

By giving more lee-way I mean we say "skip I hear ya but this is what I saw" The coach will most likely respond but then the response is Coach that's enough it's time to play"

The bottom line is that OBR rule 9.02(a) is a rule that has NEVER been adhered to.

Pete Booth

[critterump1]

Why would you ever ask the other coach if you blew a call!!!!!!!!!!
Did you just want to confirm that you blew it and make sure he knew that you knew you blew it.
To me that is a sign of weakness that will not earn you respect.
Don't ever worry about fans shaking their heads. On ever close call, half of them will agree with your call and the other half will disagree depending which side of the field they are on.
When it comes to fans, block them out, the are dumber than the Rats.
For Love of the Game...Engage the Mechanism!!!! :D

No its not a sign of weakness its more of a sign of honest after i kept the call and ask him a couple innings later. Fans shaking there head? Why you tell me this? it was another umpire who was shaking is head at the coach.

excuse me you are insulting fans without fans we wouldn't have baseball. with voulnteers we wouldn't be able to do our job or get food/drinks. They might not be "umpire smart" but that does not make them dumb

[critterump1]

Richard IMO, here-in lies the problem



We all know that the part I underlined in BOLD is a crock. From the beginning of time managers were allowed to come out and argue. People see it on TV all the time which makes our jobs as amateurs that much more difficult.

PRO ball is BIG TIME money so the umpires on TV are going to take more. Just look at the play-offs. A given player has to do "something' REAL blatant (and even then) before the umpires would even think about ejecting him.

The last time I remember a BIG TIME player getting EJ'd was Roger Clemens when he was a member of the BOSOX playing the Angels in the ALCS.

So at least for PRO Umpires they do "take more' in the playoffs as opposed to regular season.

Thereore, in addition to what you posted IMO, the more interesting question is this

Do you put up with more if it's a HS Varsity Sectional Game / State Final then you would in the regular season?

If the answer to that is YES, then it stands to reason that we would allow a coach a little more lee-way (provided he didn't use profanity etc.) when we KNOW we kicked the call. By more lee-way I do not mean drag the game out.

Also, IMO, it's much easier to difuse the problem when you are the BU as opposed to the PU. Let's say you as BU kicked a call on the bases that was the third out. As BU you simply head down the RF line. Most coaches will not "come after you" because that shows that a coach is aggressive and if he does "chase you" it's an easy EJ.

The problem is if you are the PU. You can go get a drink or something but unlike the BU who is some 50-70 ft. down the RF line there is only so far that you can go.

By giving more lee-way I mean we say "skip I hear ya but this is what I saw" The coach will most likely respond but then the response is Coach that's enough it's time to play"

The bottom line is that OBR rule 9.02(a) is a rule that has NEVER been adhered to.

Pete Booth

Usually in playoffs you give them more room to cool down and relax. motion run high in playoffs/tourment play.

Doing a baberuth one. and coach yelling at me for my strike zone Well it didn't bother me, anyways i had a play at home coach agures that he never tag runner. catcher block the plate. My parnter told me the ball drop but they never ask me to appeal it.

So the call stay. My parnter also told me not to deal with is screaming. well i give him his warning at the plate.

[semper_fi_72]

Usually in playoffs you give them more room to cool down and relax. motion run high in playoffs/tourment play.

Doing a baberuth one. and coach yelling at me for my strike zone Well it didn't bother me, anyways i had a play at home coach agures that he never tag runner. catcher block the plate. My parnter told me the ball drop but they never ask me to appeal it.

So the call stay. My parnter also told me not to deal with is screaming. well i give him his warning at the plate.

What were you watching if you did not notice the catcher dropped the ball?
Sounds like you made the call to fast.

After a play like that make sure the catcher has possession of the ball still before you make the call.

One thing blowing a judgment call but if your partner and you are discussing it for some reason, which was not discussed when that occurred. If that discussion occurred immediately after the play then based on what he observed it may have been a good time to reverse your call to get the call right.

Apparently your partner thought you blew it also.

[semper_fi_72]

No its not a sign of weakness its more of a sign of honest after i kept the call and ask him a couple innings later. Fans shaking there head? Why you tell me this? it was another umpire who was shaking is head at the coach.

excuse me you are insulting fans without fans we wouldn't have baseball. with voulnteers we wouldn't be able to do our job or get food/drinks. They might not be "umpire smart" but that does not make them dumb

That is worse than a fan shaking their head.
Was it your on field partner who was shaking his head????

No where in the rule book does it say we need fans to have a game. It does address players. So we do have baseball without fans or spectators.

Do not need volunteers to bring me food and drink. Have worked many a game where there are no snack bar or volunteers of any kind and it was over 100 degrees. Better bring your own or go without.

From what you have written in other posts; LL Jr Umpires, Fall Ball Ejection and Kick the Call, I interpret them as you may be very young and having a problem since so many are disagreeing with your calls and abilities.

I would suggest that you get a mentor to help you improve.

If your fellow umpires and coaches do not believe you are doing a good job, you will run out of games to work as they will not be calling you back.

This is a tough business.

As someone else said, if you are getting paid to work a game, you are a professional umpire working a baseball game with armature players.

[ump_24]

Critterump,

First, allow me to suggest your ideas would have more credibility if they were presented in an academic manner. No one is going to help you if we need to spend more time figuring out what you are trying to say, as opposed to figuring out what we want to say back to you.

Second, fans mean nothing. There are no "fans" in minor baseball. They are called "parents". Take it firsthand from myself, they see what they want to see: a child who is a future MLB superstar. Every time you make a call against him, you are retracting his chances of getting there. You will be villified to no end, even if you are completely correct. As Semper states, we do not need anyone in the stands to play a game.

Moreover, never, ever, under any circumstance, ask a coach if he thought you blew a call after. When you're on the field, you do one thing: you call what you see. Sometimes you will think you see something else, call it, and then go "what the Holy name of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph did I just call?!" Other times you will know for certain you got it right. Other times, you will not be sure. Get used to it. It is part of the job. We are human (boy this is a recurring theme of mine right now) and we make mistakes. If you feel you messed up, identify ASAP what went wrong, and fix it next time.

Why you would go to the coach asking him if he thought you blew it, I do not know. Doing that is about as smart as doing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7N263od3mk&feature=related

Present the image of being calm, confident, and in control. Going and asking a coach his opinion of a call is just the slightest bit counterproductive to that. It is near automatic grounds for a ticket home for bringing up an earlier call in the game if done by the coach. Why on Earth would you do the same?

And why would you take being yelled at for your strike zone? Either it actually is bad, or your (lack of) game management has allowed things to get to that point. Amateur benches get one freebie. The second time you address them regarding the strike zone, you better be reducing their population by at least one.

[critterump1]

What were you watching if you did not notice the catcher dropped the ball?
Sounds like you made the call to fast.

After a play like that make sure the catcher has possession of the ball still before you make the call.

One thing blowing a judgment call but if your partner and you are discussing it for some reason, which was not discussed when that occurred. If that discussion occurred immediately after the play then based on what he observed it may have been a good time to reverse your call to get the call right.

Apparently your partner thought you blew it also.

I was watching the play he said the ball drop. I didn't see the ball drop the coach didn't even argue that the ball drop either. they just said there was no tag.

I saw a clear view of tag and did not see a white ball on the dirt. Nor can i change it that cause more things to happen. If they ask me if the ball drop i would appeal to my partner coach never ask. Call stands.

"(c) If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire’s decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it.

He told me no one as for a appeal at all. I am not saying he is wrong. But when you have managor and coach agure yet don't argue about the ball being drop i think he was seeing things.

[critterump1]

Critterump,

First, allow me to suggest your ideas would have more credibility if they were presented in an academic manner. No one is going to help you if we need to spend more time figuring out what you are trying to say, as opposed to figuring out what we want to say back to you.

Second, fans mean nothing. There are no "fans" in minor baseball. They are called "parents". Take it firsthand from myself, they see what they want to see: a child who is a future MLB superstar. Every time you make a call against him, you are retracting his chances of getting there. You will be villified to no end, even if you are completely correct. As Semper states, we do not need anyone in the stands to play a game.

Moreover, never, ever, under any circumstance, ask a coach if he thought you blew a call after. When you're on the field, you do one thing: you call what you see. Sometimes you will think you see something else, call it, and then go "what the Holy name of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph did I just call?!" Other times you will know for certain you got it right. Other times, you will not be sure. Get used to it. It is part of the job. We are human (boy this is a recurring theme of mine right now) and we make mistakes. If you feel you messed up, identify ASAP what went wrong, and fix it next time.

Why you would go to the coach asking him if he thought you blew it, I do not know. Doing that is about as smart as doing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7N263od3mk&feature=related

Present the image of being calm, confident, and in control. Going and asking a coach his opinion of a call is just the slightest bit counterproductive to that. It is near automatic grounds for a ticket home for bringing up an earlier call in the game if done by the coach. Why on Earth would you do the same?

And why would you take being yelled at for your strike zone? Either it actually is bad, or your (lack of) game management has allowed things to get to that point. Amateur benches get one freebie. The second time you address them regarding the strike zone, you better be reducing their population by at least one.

Yet you tell me this yet comments should be better.
It was fall ball no one cares. its all in fun. I didn't have a parnter and i needed to know if i miss the call or not there was like 6 people round the bag and i am between home and first so i didn't get the best veiw. this why i ask him.

I let my call stand for a reason. It has nothing to do with condifendt cool or control. I really could care less for youtube. Its like in the rule book say you techially not suppose to talk to coachs or fans but who cares. As long as it does not effect the game it does no matter

[critterump1]

What were you watching if you did not notice the catcher dropped the ball?
Sounds like you made the call to fast.

After a play like that make sure the catcher has possession of the ball still before you make the call.

One thing blowing a judgment call but if your partner and you are discussing it for some reason, which was not discussed when that occurred. If that discussion occurred immediately after the play then based on what he observed it may have been a good time to reverse your call to get the call right.

Apparently your partner thought you blew it also.

there was no disusing about it he told me. He can only tell me if i ask for help. He has no right to tell me. I did make sure excuse me for being honest. Your all assuming my partner right. But he did it wrong also. I never ask for help. no coach appeal it no one did. the catcher had the ball

[critterump1]

That is worse than a fan shaking their head.
Was it your on field partner who was shaking his head????

No where in the rule book does it say we need fans to have a game. It does address players. So we do have baseball without fans or spectators.

Do not need volunteers to bring me food and drink. Have worked many a game where there are no snack bar or volunteers of any kind and it was over 100 degrees. Better bring your own or go without.

From what you have written in other posts; LL Jr Umpires, Fall Ball Ejection and Kick the Call, I interpret them as you may be very young and having a problem since so many are disagreeing with your calls and abilities.

I would suggest that you get a mentor to help you improve.

If your fellow umpires and coaches do not believe you are doing a good job, you will run out of games to work as they will not be calling you back.

This is a tough business.

As someone else said, if you are getting paid to work a game, you are a professional umpire working a baseball game with armature players.

Wow god people like your a jackasses I was explaing without volunteers we woldn't even have baseball to umpire no need to be a jackass ass shit hole.

god people so ****ign ass rude

[bretth]

critterump1,

On the bright side, you take criticism well!

[semper_fi_72]

Wow god people like your a jackasses I was explaing without volunteers we woldn't even have baseball to umpire no need to be a jackass ass shit hole.

god people so ****ign ass rude

Critterump1

I wish you the best of luck.

But since you have now crossed the line and gone to personal insults, there is only one thing to do....EJ....See ya later Gator.

[semper_fi_72]

critterump1,

On the bright side, you take criticism well!

ROFLMAO :p

Last time I checked you can not buy Thick Skin from any Umpire Equipment Supplier....LOL

Probably why is partner shakes his head at his calls.

[ump_24]

critterump1,

On the bright side, you take criticism well!

So do blunt instruments.

Just saying....

[semper_fi_72]

So do blunt instruments.

Just saying....

Does that carry the same meaning as not the sharpest tack in the box. :confused:

[ump_24]

Does that carry the same meaning as not the sharpest tack in the box. :confused:

No matter how much or what you yell at a "blunt instrument", it will just sit there and do nothing.

So to answer your question, yes. Personally, my line of choice is:
"Sharp as a bowling ball" :D

[critterump1]

What i said it was wrong. But also people need to be better talking to other people than insutling me as well. I am sorry. But if you want to be treated with respect. you Should be respecting everyone IF not your be seeing this side more.

I have no excsue for being like this But others don't either.

[critterump1]

ROFLMAO :p

Last time I checked you can not buy Thick Skin from any Umpire Equipment Supplier....LOL

Probably why is partner shakes his head at his calls.

No what my partner did was wrong as well. yet you all approve of it. I did that before in ll. but never told the coach anything and i learn my lesson than when i was young and getting used to it. I also apgolize for it about it after the game.

He had no problems with it at all.

[semper_fi_72]

No what my partner did was wrong as well. yet you all approve of it. I did that before in ll. but never told the coach anything and i learn my lesson than when i was young and getting used to it. I also apgolize for it about it after the game.

He had no problems with it at all.

Your post said a fan.
Then you said it was another umpire.
I said if it was your partner, he was wrong also for indicating you blew the call anyway.
No one would condone or approve that from a partner.
Regardless of what ever happens, never give any indication you disagree with a partners call. Wait till you get to the parking lot and then let him know what you observed.
The way you responded to posts, in language and content, I am sure left several of us shaking our heads in frustration.
You stated that you left umpiring Little League because there was a lot of objection, except one, to the way you umpired.
Now in PONY, Cal or whatever you have partners shaking their heads at your calls.
I can only assume, based on numbers and occurrences of what you stated that perhaps it is time to look at what these folks are telling you are weaknesses and how to improve them.
I recently had a partner (first time) that talked on his cell phone between every inning. Regardless of his ability I will not work with him again based on this fact. That is un-professional and I don't want to work with guys like that.
Based on what you have stated on your posts, some folks in your area do not seem to think you are a good umpire.
What can you do to improve that perception?
Unless you do something, they will not be scheduling you for games and it will be to late. Your reputation will precede you.

[critterump1]

Your post said a fan.
Then you said it was another umpire.
I said if it was your partner, he was wrong also for indicating you blew the call anyway.
No one would condone or approve that from a partner.
Regardless of what ever happens, never give any indication you disagree with a partners call. Wait till you get to the parking lot and then let him know what you observed.
The way you responded to posts, in language and content, I am sure left several of us shaking our heads in frustration.
You stated that you left umpiring Little League because there was a lot of objection, except one, to the way you umpired.
Now in PONY, Cal or whatever you have partners shaking their heads at your calls.
I can only assume, based on numbers and occurrences of what you stated that perhaps it is time to look at what these folks are telling you are weaknesses and how to improve them.
I recently had a partner (first time) that talked on his cell phone between every inning. Regardless of his ability I will not work with him again based on this fact. That is un-professional and I don't want to work with guys like that.
Based on what you have stated on your posts, some folks in your area do not seem to think you are a good umpire.
What can you do to improve that perception?
Unless you do something, they will not be scheduling you for games and it will be to late. Your reputation will precede you.

I don't i just said he never appeal or ask me to so the call stood i am talking about the manager

As far for people not thinking i am good umpire, they can only jugde me by the why i explain things. see i got chromosome 18 ring disorder and dyslexic

They never seen me in action its better if i am. I been told i had a great strike zone but also got to work on some things and i been doing that near the end of the year.

My assigners has not yet seen me out yet he busy. I been umpire for more than 5-6 years. I know im not the best umpire but i also know i am not the worst umpire.

[critterump1]

Your post said a fan.
Then you said it was another umpire.
I said if it was your partner, he was wrong also for indicating you blew the call anyway.
No one would condone or approve that from a partner.
Regardless of what ever happens, never give any indication you disagree with a partners call. Wait till you get to the parking lot and then let him know what you observed.
The way you responded to posts, in language and content, I am sure left several of us shaking our heads in frustration.
You stated that you left umpiring Little League because there was a lot of objection, except one, to the way you umpired.
Now in PONY, Cal or whatever you have partners shaking their heads at your calls.
I can only assume, based on numbers and occurrences of what you stated that perhaps it is time to look at what these folks are telling you are weaknesses and how to improve them.
I recently had a partner (first time) that talked on his cell phone between every inning. Regardless of his ability I will not work with him again based on this fact. That is un-professional and I don't want to work with guys like that.
Based on what you have stated on your posts, some folks in your area do not seem to think you are a good umpire.
What can you do to improve that perception?
Unless you do something, they will not be scheduling you for games and it will be to late. Your reputation will precede you. I have been scheduling more than 50+ games last year, the other year i started late,

Some umpires down here you get two sides of things some are amuters like myself others are more knowing. I get very well along with most umpires. though i did have this one umpire i said something to my assignor

This umpire did not wear the official umpire pants he called everything loud foul tip he change my call and even when i talk to him before the game about 9.02(c) he said he boss could do that, he also ask the coach's

The fans were on him i so wanted to leave i actually tried cause i didn't want to work with him. anymore but they assassinated me to stay. I just stay far away from him as possible.

[Brotherhood_of_Blue]

I have been scheduling more than 50+ games last year, the other year i started late,

Some umpires down here you get two sides of things some are amuters like myself others are more knowing. I get very well along with most umpires. though i did have this one umpire i said something to my assignor

This umpire did not wear the official umpire pants he called everything loud foul tip he change my call and even when i talk to him before the game about 9.02(c) he said he boss could do that, he also ask the coach's

The fans were on him i so wanted to leave i actually tried cause i didn't want to work with him. anymore but they assassinated me to stay. I just stay far away from him as possible.

Just..........WOW...........

[heyblue26]

What i said it was wrong. But also people need to be better talking to other people than insutling me as well. I am sorry. But if you want to be treated with respect. you Should be respecting everyone IF not your be seeing this side more.

I have no excsue for being like this But others don't either.

Respect is something that you earn it is not a given. You may not respect the individual but you respect his position and his rank if it is in the military. IMO

[critterump1]

Respect is something that you earn it is not a given. You may not respect the individual but you respect his position and his rank if it is in the military. IMO

Wrong you are suppose to respect people i so hate this saying. Now your going backwards.

You not going to show respect i am not going to bother sticking around on these sites. You show it. I am so tired of these crap.

[ump_24]

Wrong you are suppose to respect people i so hate this saying. Now your going backwards.

You not going to show respect i am not going to bother sticking around on these sites. You show it. I am so tired of these crap.

Right and wrong. No person deserves to be dehumanized. But that is the upper limit of respect someone is entitled to in the world without doing anything to prove they are worthy of it.

You start neutral. Everything you do is observed and analysed; you are judged on the outcome. If its a negative outcome, you get a bad rep. If its a positive outcome, you get a good rep. By your logic, we would all respect politicians, superstar athletes, and criminals equally. Comments like yours above do not do much for the positive stream.

No one is telling you to go. But at the same time, no one is asking you to stay. This is a public forum. You are not under any obligation to remain here. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the fire. There are some on here who constructively criticise by tearing something you write to shreds. It's called tough love. Guess what? They're usually right. Accept it for what it is.

This is an invaluable resource, however, not every single thing you write on here will be responded to with sunshine and lollipops. That is, as they say, how the world turns.

[midwayll]

Folks, critter is a troll. He has been on other sites doing the same thing. Please do not respond to him. It is the only way to make him go away.

[Ozzy]

Wrong you are suppose to respect people i so hate this saying. Now your going backwards.

You not going to show respect i am not going to bother sticking around on these sites. You show it. I am so tired of these crap.
Reading (or trying to make sense of them) your posts is hard enough. Now you have a attitude to go with it? Here, let me hold the exit door for you!

[Brotherhood_of_Blue]

Folks, critter is a troll. He has been on other sites doing the same thing. Please do not respond to him. It is the only way to make him go away.

Well when things are slow, even trolls have their value. However as others have tried to help pointing out, (semper fi, U24, among others), to a degree he seems to have the desire to improve, if you can just clean up some of the delivery to be able to see through it he may actually get something from the invaluable input available here.

As to respect, I think it can go back to the theme of the OP. In most societies there is an ASSUMED Aura of respect when it comes to certain "types" of individuals. This is normally seen most in the Military, but goes over to Police Officers, Judges, and yes, even Umpires. I Normally see one of those people and my normal mode of first impression is that I'm dealing with someone that has received some form of training, and holds a position of authority. Of course they may prove me wrong within the first 20 seconds of the conversation but it still doesn't change that first impression. Going back to our avocation, our bearing, manner, and dress, can help significantly when we're dealing with something or someplace new, whether it be a partner, or new league. I know I'm guilty of making some assumptions the first time I meet a new partner and he looks like he just crawled out of a hamper. One of the best I've ever worked with looks that way, would love to work with him more, but I just can't bring myself to hang with that.

Just my .03, adjusting for an overinflated dollar!

Tom

[heyblue26]

Wrong you are suppose to respect people i so hate this saying. Now your going backwards.

You not going to show respect i am not going to bother sticking around on these sites. You show it. I am so tired of these crap.

Yes I agree that you should show respect to others but those that have no respect fore those that are trying to help someone how can you show them respect. There are a lot of people on this site that have so much knowledge of the game and are trying to help you, but you have a problem either of not wanting to listen or think that you know it all and that will not get you any where here on this site or any other. Grow Up.

I agree with Ozzy There's the door that is strike two.

[Pete_Booth]

[QUOTE=Brotherhood_of_Blue;98600]
Well when things are slow, even trolls have their value.

IMO, Richard wrote an EXCELLENT Thread and one in which I believe many officials ponder: "I just kicked the s**t out of a call and how much leeway /rope (if any) will I give the manager".

Then the OP went "off coarse" and what IMO could have generated good dialogue turned "south" which unfortunately is a drawback of public internet Forums.

Therefore, I do not agree that because things are slow trolls have value. Good dialogue and discussion have value.

Let's go back to Richard's topic if possible.

Pete Booth

[cajunyankee]

Critter,

In the imortal words of Michael Jackson..........

BEAT IIIIIIIT............BEAT IIIIIIIIIT...

Your anger is ruining my buzz man.

Take a hike.

[Brotherhood_of_Blue]

[QUOTE]

Therefore, I do not agree that because things are slow trolls have value. Good dialogue and discussion have value.

Let's go back to Richard's topic if possible.

Pete Booth

Point well made and taken.

Richard's advice is the soundest, and in my estimation easiest given the situation. I have given a little feeling like I may have been in a bad spot and there was a chance I kicked it, and paid the price with an evaluator in the stands. What should have been a quick conversation turned into a 2-3 minute ordeal and my hesitation put me in the position of loosing control of what had been a good HS Varsity game to that point. Later had another similar circumstance with a new partner and signals got crossed, responded with "just the facts", and moved it along. I say easiest, because at least for me, when I keep things short and simple, the game tends to take care of itself, and I really only have to manage it and do my job.

Tom