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View Full Version : Runner Misses Home Plate and Catcher Misses Tag Mechanic


scumpire
08-03-2009, 07:47 AM
I know this topic has been discussed all over this forum so here is a good video from a MLB game that shows you the correct mechanic for when a runner misses home plate and the catcher misses the tag.

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=5890811

Ozzy
08-03-2009, 01:36 PM
Yes, this has been discussed numerous times before and yes, this is the correct mechanic for the umpire.

Richard_Siegel
08-03-2009, 02:30 PM
.I know this topic has been discussed all over this forum so here is a good video from a MLB game that shows you the correct mechanic for when a runner misses home plate and the catcher misses the tag.

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=5890811

Another benefit of seeing this video is that this is a typical swipe tag play where the only way to see the missed home plate and the missed tag is from the third baseline extended. The plate umpire in this clip is standing at the point of the plate which is the next best place to be, but it is not quite as good as being at the third baseline extended. But note that he leaned to his right just as the tag was attempted to improve his 3BLE angle. I bet he was saying to himself right then, "I should have been more on the 3BLE!") Only at the 3BLE can you see the daylight between the mitt and the runner, and the foot miss the plate.

If the umpire were to be standing at the FIRST base line extended, or worse, farther up the line towards third base (behind the play) where many amateur umpires seem to end up seeing plays at home plate he would have no clue if the runner touched home plate or if the catcher actually touched the runner because the runner's body would be blocking the umpire's view of the tag.

heyblue26
08-03-2009, 02:38 PM
Another benefit of seeing this video is that this is a typical swipe tag play where the only way to see the missed home plate and the missed tag is from the third baseline extended. The plate umpire in this clip is standing at the point of the plate which is the next best place to be, but it is not quite as good as being at the third baseline extended where you can see the daylight between the mitt and the runner, and the foot miss the plate.

If the umpire were to be standing at the FIRST base line extended, or worse, farther up the line towards third base (behind the play) where many amateur umpires seem to end up seeing plays at home plate he would have no clue if the runner touched home plate or if the catcher actually touched the runner because the runner's body would be blocking the umpire's view of the tag.

Yes Richard this video was real good and you have given a great example and explaination of were the plate umpire should be on a play of this type. I think he made a nice call and didn't give any advantage to either team in his call. He called it as he saw it take place and waited for the play to end then made the call.

umpgent
08-03-2009, 07:21 PM
The late great John McSherry also discusses these optimum positions in his very short (30 min), but very enlightening video that he did with Steve Yeager.

This video is well worth studying, if for no other reason, but for the humor factor. The two of them working together is hilarious. It's as good for catchers to view as it is for umpires.

BrianC14
08-04-2009, 12:28 AM
.

Another benefit of seeing this video is that this is a typical swipe tag play where the only way to see the missed home plate and the missed tag is from the third baseline extended. The plate umpire in this clip is standing at the point of the plate which is the next best place to be, but it is not quite as good as being at the third baseline extended. But note that he leaned to his right just as the tag was attempted to improve his 3BLE angle. I bet he was saying to himself right then, "I should have been more on the 3BLE!") Only at the 3BLE can you see the daylight between the mitt and the runner, and the foot miss the plate.

If the umpire were to be standing at the FIRST base line extended, or worse, farther up the line towards third base (behind the play) where many amateur umpires seem to end up seeing plays at home plate he would have no clue if the runner touched home plate or if the catcher actually touched the runner because the runner's body would be blocking the umpire's view of the tag.

Looks to me as though he leaned LEFT as F2 tries to tag the runner.

robbyrudd455
08-04-2009, 03:26 AM
One of the biggest mistakes by newer (and some veteran) umpires is they always want to get to 1BLX on everything. This is a great reason why you should get to 3BLX.

Richard_Siegel
08-04-2009, 03:54 AM
One of the biggest mistakes by newer (and some veteran) umpires is they always want to get to 1BLX on everything. This is a great reason why you should get to 3BLX.

The mistake that new umpires make is what I call getting "sucked up the 3B line." New and untrained umpires know that have have the responsibility to see a runner touch 3B as he advances. For some reason, the umpire will mistakenly decide that he better can see the runner touch 3B if he gets closer to 3B by slipping up the 3B line about 20 feet. Then as the runner continues to HP the umpire realizes he has to make a call at HP. Since the runner is coming in very fast the umpire will realize he has no time to get to better position to see the play at HP. So the umpire will simply stay right where he is and "lock in" on his view of HP from that position and hope he can get a good look at the play.

This why so many umpire end up standing about 15 or 20 feet up the 3B line on the foul side of the line to make a call on a play at HP. This is about the worst place to be to make a call at HP. Ironically, about 50% of the time you can see the tag OK from that position, so these umpires will get a false sense of security that they are getting to a good place to see plays at HP. But, as the clip shows, plays that involve swipe tags can not be seen from the position when the umpire is sucked up the 3B line.

There is no place you can stand to see plays at HP with 100% success. Even at the 3BLE you can get blocked out of a swipe tag on a runner's back. But the vast majority of tag plays at HP can be seen best from the 3BLE. I think it is the best place for 95% of tag plays at HP.

Force plays at HP should be taken at the 1BLE so you can be in position to look up the 1B line when F2 throws the ball to F3 for a DP.

chuck1
08-04-2009, 06:45 AM
.

Another benefit of seeing this video is that this is a typical swipe tag play where the only way to see the missed home plate and the missed tag is from the third baseline extended. The plate umpire in this clip is standing at the point of the plate which is the next best place to be, but it is not quite as good as being at the third baseline extended. But note that he leaned to his right just as the tag was attempted to improve his 3BLE angle. I bet he was saying to himself right then, "I should have been more on the 3BLE!") Only at the 3BLE can you see the daylight between the mitt and the runner, and the foot miss the plate.

If the umpire were to be standing at the FIRST base line extended, or worse, farther up the line towards third base (behind the play) where many amateur umpires seem to end up seeing plays at home plate he would have no clue if the runner touched home plate or if the catcher actually touched the runner because the runner's body would be blocking the umpire's view of the tag.

And as you well know Richard, many runners do not try to touch the plate with their foot on this play. They sneak their left hand in on the plate as they go by with their feet. You will not see the left hand touch from 1BLE either.

chuck1
08-04-2009, 06:49 AM
The mistake that new umpires make is what I call getting "sucked up the 3B line." New and untrained umpires know that have have the responsibility to see a runner touch 3B as he advances. For some reason, the umpire will mistakenly decide that he better can see the runner touch 3B if he gets closer to 3B by slipping up the 3B line about 20 feet. Then as the runner continues to HP the umpire realizes he has to make a call at HP. Since the runner is coming in very fast the umpire will realize he has no time to get to better position to see the play at HP. So the umpire will simply stay right where he is and "lock in" on his view of HP from that position and hope he can get a good look at the play.

This why so many umpire end up standing about 15 or 20 feet up the 3B line on the foul side of the line to make a call on a play at HP. This is about the worst place to be to make a call at HP. Ironically, about 50% of the time you can see the tag OK from that position, so these umpires will get a false sense of security that they are getting to a good place to see plays at HP. But, as the clip shows, plays that involve swipe tags can not be seen from the position when the umpire is sucked up the 3B line.

There is no place you can stand to see plays at HP with 100% success. Even at the 3BLE you can get blocked out of a swipe tag on a runner's back. But the vast majority of tag plays at HP can be seen best from the 3BLE. I think it is the best place for 95% of tag plays at HP.

Force plays at HP should be taken at the 1BLE so you can be in position to look up the 1B line when F2 throws the ball to F3 for a DP.

Hell, they might as well just go into "fair territory" up the line and then take the play at home like they would a steal at second base. (off the subject a bit and at a different base, but did you see Crawford take the back end of a double play the other night from the cutout inside the diamond at first?. Not too many use that technique any more, but it will work).

Richard_Siegel
08-04-2009, 07:04 AM
Hell, they might as well just go into "fair territory" up the line and then take the play at home like they would a steal at second base. ....

Why? Is that supposed to be better than the 3BLE?

chuck1
08-04-2009, 12:04 PM
Why? Is that supposed to be better than the 3BLE?

"This why so many umpire end up standing about 15 or 20 feet up the 3B line on the foul side of the line to make a call on a play at HP. This is about the worst place to be to make a call at HP."

No----Sorry Richard, my response was mainly in reply to the 2 lines above. Sorry I did not edit out the rest. Your original full post was right on the money.

DP
08-04-2009, 03:58 PM
As was said, this has been discussed many many times here BUT for what its worth, I believe this trend toward going up the 3rd baseline is an example of another flaw in the 2 man system. During the HS season, I had this play. Runner at first, batter hits a gapper. As PU I have to get up the line as I am responsible for the runner from first coming 1B to 3rd. Ball gets past outfielder but he quickly picks it up and relays to SS who sees runner is coming home. Now I am in a footrace to get back to 3B line extended in time for the play at the plate. Ain't going to happen, so you make the call from 1st baseline extended, actually up the third base line a little. Years ago, that was where you went if you expected a collision play and 3B ext if you expected a swipe tag. You just get yourselfed parked and make the best call you can. Another problem with going 3B ext is preceeding runners, they want to run you down or get in front of you to coach the next runner's slide. You wind up shoving people out of the way etc. The trend today is away from the old collision play(however I do work in an adult league where it is still in vogue) so 3B ext is probably better but, it isn't written in stone as the only place to be.

Richard_Siegel
08-04-2009, 08:10 PM
As was said, this has been discussed many many times here BUT for what its worth, I believe this trend toward going up the 3rd baseline is an example of another flaw in the 2 man system. During the HS season, I had this play. Runner at first, batter hits a gapper. As PU I have to get up the line as I am responsible for the runner from first coming 1B to 3rd. Ball gets past outfielder but he quickly picks it up and relays to SS who sees runner is coming home. Now I am in a footrace to get back to 3B line extended in time for the play at the plate. Ain't going to happen, so you make the call from 1st baseline extended, actually up the third base line a little. Years ago, that was where you went if you expected a collision play and 3B ext if you expected a swipe tag. You just get yourselfed parked and make the best call you can. Another problem with going 3B ext is preceeding runners, they want to run you down or get in front of you to coach the next runner's slide. You wind up shoving people out of the way etc. The trend today is away from the old collision play(however I do work in an adult league where it is still in vogue) so 3B ext is probably better but, it isn't written in stone as the only place to be.

As you head up to 3B to cover a play on R1 advancing to 3B on a basehit to the OF you should be reading the ball at the same time. When you are 3/4 of the way to 3B you stop at the "library" a read the ball. It is now when you have to make a decision of there will actually be a play at 3B. If you see the ball has not yet been fielded by the outfielders and you see R1 is halfway from 2B to 3B there will be no play at 3B. If, at this point, you sense the runner might try to score you should have plenty of time to get back to the 3BLE from there. Call to your partner that you're going home. Start to back off to HP by keep an eye on R1 because you still have to see him touch 3B. Then once he touches, bust it back to the point of the plate or 3BLE. Do not get pinned up the 3B and make your call from there.

AugieDonatelli
08-04-2009, 08:34 PM
As was said, this has been discussed many many times here BUT for what its worth, I believe this trend toward going up the 3rd baseline is an example of another flaw in the 2 man system. During the HS season, I had this play. Runner at first, batter hits a gapper. As PU I have to get up the line as I am responsible for the runner from first coming 1B to 3rd. Ball gets past outfielder but he quickly picks it up and relays to SS who sees runner is coming home. Now I am in a footrace to get back to 3B line extended in time for the play at the plate. Ain't going to happen, so you make the call from 1st baseline extended, actually up the third base line a little. Years ago, that was where you went if you expected a collision play and 3B ext if you expected a swipe tag. You just get yourselfed parked and make the best call you can. Another problem with going 3B ext is preceeding runners, they want to run you down or get in front of you to coach the next runner's slide. You wind up shoving people out of the way etc. The trend today is away from the old collision play(however I do work in an adult league where it is still in vogue) so 3B ext is probably better but, it isn't written in stone as the only place to be.Richard is right. You only have a play at 3rd if both ball and runner are coming to 3rd. In your example, once the ball gets past the outfielder, you no longer are going to have a play at 3rd. You go back home while watching the runner touch 3rd. If they throw behind him at 3rd, it's now the BU's responsibility. Your responsibilty for R1 ended when both he and the ball did not go to 3rd base.

zam989s
08-04-2009, 09:22 PM
I concur about the play at 3rd on a rotation in 2-man. I know when I'm about half way up the line if there is going to be a play at 3rd or not. If not, I just yell at my partner that I'm staying home and I get back there by the time the runner gets to 3rd.

The only time you would have a problem is when you have a play at 3rd and there is an overthrow and the runner goes home.

heyblue26
08-05-2009, 12:40 PM
The late great John McSherry also discusses these optimum positions in his very short (30 min), but very enlightening video that he did with Steve Yeager.

This video is well worth studying, if for no other reason, but for the humor factor. The two of them working together is hilarious. It's as good for catchers to view as it is for umpires.

I agree that it is great for both and in respect you can get some good teaching from both.