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renegadewolf
07-31-2009, 08:19 AM
Just a quick question, if a catcher is standing up, holding his arm straight out as though to signal an intentional walk and the pitcher fires on straight down the pipe, should this simply be called a strike, or could this be considered an act of deception. I don't ever recall reading a rule that states when a catcher stands up and points away from the batter that anything beyond the catcher being in their box until the pitch is delivered, but it seems kinda dirty pool to me. any input?

SocalBlue1
07-31-2009, 08:39 AM
A strike is a strike. F2 is normally asking for time right away to gp talk to the bonehead on the hill.

bobjenkins
07-31-2009, 02:29 PM
should this simply be called a strike, or could this be considered an act of deception.

Those aren't mutually exclusive items. It's both a strike and it's deception. It's also legal.

KenGibes
07-31-2009, 03:03 PM
Just a quick question, if a catcher is standing up, holding his arm straight out as though to signal an intentional walk and the pitcher fires on straight down the pipe, should this simply be called a strike, or could this be considered an act of deception. I don't ever recall reading a rule that states when a catcher stands up and points away from the batter that anything beyond the catcher being in their box until the pitch is delivered, but it seems kinda dirty pool to me. any input?

Maybe we should ask Johnny Bench about the morality of this play...

AugieDonatelli
07-31-2009, 03:59 PM
Maybe we should ask Johnny Bench about the morality of this play...

I used to know a woman who dated Bench, and from what I gathered from her, morality wasn't Johnny's strong suit.

HugoTafurst
07-31-2009, 03:59 PM
Just a quick question, if a catcher is standing up, holding his arm straight out as though to signal an intentional walk and the pitcher fires on straight down the pipe, should this simply be called a strike, or could this be considered an act of deception. I don't ever recall reading a rule that states when a catcher stands up and points away from the batter that anything beyond the catcher being in their box until the pitch is delivered, but it seems kinda dirty pool to me. any input?

What???
Deception, "Dirty Pool" in baseball????:eek:
Punish the usual suspects.......:rolleyes:

OK, sarcasm over for a minute:
Exactly what is wrong with trying to decieve a batter.
Should change-ups now be ilegal? Curve Balls?

Rich_Ives
07-31-2009, 04:09 PM
What???
Deception, "Dirty Pool" in baseball????:eek:
Punish the usual suspects.......:rolleyes:

OK, sarcasm over for a minute:
Exactly what is wrong with trying to decieve a batter.
Should change-ups now be ilegal? Curve Balls?

Knuckeballs should be because they deceive everybody. :rolleyes:

BrianC14
07-31-2009, 04:14 PM
Just a quick question, if a catcher is standing up, holding his arm straight out as though to signal an intentional walk and the pitcher fires on straight down the pipe, should this simply be called a strike, or could this be considered an act of deception. I don't ever recall reading a rule that states when a catcher stands up and points away from the batter that anything beyond the catcher being in their box until the pitch is delivered, but it seems kinda dirty pool to me. any input?

This is why the DH rule stinks.
If a guy pulled this stunt in the NL, he'd better hope he's pulled before his next at-bat.
Then again, whoever leads off for that team next inning might be the receiver of the message that's going to be sent.

renegadewolf
07-31-2009, 04:18 PM
What???
Deception, "Dirty Pool" in baseball????:eek:
Punish the usual suspects.......:rolleyes:

OK, sarcasm over for a minute:
Exactly what is wrong with trying to decieve a batter.
Should change-ups now be ilegal? Curve Balls?

I'll be honest here I am still a noob to this, i am a level 1a (first year) umpire and still get confused on things. I think I've done a pretty good job of learning and understanding the rules of baseball, and I admit sometimes i might see an odd situation where I've not seen a situation and end up making something out of nothing, such as this one, but this is why i ask, I learn and i hopefully become a better umpire for it, and I do honestly appreciate all the input

thanks a bunch

Rich_Ives
07-31-2009, 04:35 PM
This is why the DH rule stinks.
If a guy pulled this stunt in the NL, he'd better hope he's pulled before his next at-bat.
Then again, whoever leads off for that team next inning might be the receiver of the message that's going to be sent.

It did get pulled in the NL. Johnny Bench was the victim. No one "got even".

BrianC14
07-31-2009, 04:47 PM
I'll be honest here I am still a noob to this, i am a level 1a (first year) umpire and still get confused on things. I think I've done a pretty good job of learning and understanding the rules of baseball, and I admit sometimes i might see an odd situation where I've not seen a situation and end up making something out of nothing, such as this one, but this is why i ask, I learn and i hopefully become a better umpire for it, and I do honestly appreciate all the input

thanks a bunch

There you go, Renegade. There isn't an umpire out there that hasn't had something odd happen in a game at some point and wonder about it.

You've got the right attitude about improving your craft! ;)

Tim_C
07-31-2009, 04:48 PM
Rich, I maybe wrong, but I believe it was a World Series games against Oakland when Johnny got fooled.

And Brain I disagree that there would be a "message sent."

BrianC14
07-31-2009, 04:51 PM
Rich, I maybe wrong, but I believe it was a World Series games against Oakland when Johnny got fooled.

And Brain I disagree that there would be a "message sent."

I wouldn't know - I haven't seen every single time it's ever been done, in every baseball game ever played at every level.
Geez, guys, I wasn't talking in absolutes here. Let's say it COULD happen, OK?

HugoTafurst
07-31-2009, 05:07 PM
Knuckeballs should be because they deceive everybody. :rolleyes:
Most times, including the catcher:eek:

HugoTafurst
07-31-2009, 05:10 PM
I'll be honest here I am still a noob to this, i am a level 1a (first year) umpire and still get confused on things. I think I've done a pretty good job of learning and understanding the rules of baseball, and I admit sometimes i might see an odd situation where I've not seen a situation and end up making something out of nothing, such as this one, but this is why i ask, I learn and i hopefully become a better umpire for it, and I do honestly appreciate all the input

thanks a bunch

Good luck - there really is a lot you can learn here.
(Some of it having to do with developing hard skin to deal with sarcasm spouted off by opinionated posters:p)

KenGibes
07-31-2009, 05:11 PM
Most times, including the catcher:eek:

NOT TRUE!!! Bob Uecker was an average catcher at best and he had no trouble at all catching a knuckleball.

"You just wait until it stops rolling ..."

robbyrudd455
07-31-2009, 07:41 PM
It's reallll tough to get a strike when you and the catcher are both standing straight up...

umpgent
08-03-2009, 07:26 AM
For those who are under age 45 ...

The game was Gm 3 of the 1972 World Series. Reds vs. A's in Oakland.
Johnny Bench batting with a 1 out and a full count, Gene Tenace catching, Rollie Fingers pitching. Manager Dick Williams called time and spoke to his pitcher & catcher then signalled back to put him on to apparently set up a double play.

Geno stood and called for an intentional BALL 4. Joe Morgan was on 3rd base and Bobby Tolan was on 2nd base. (I've heard Fingers tell the story incorrectly in an interview ... thinking Morgan was on 2nd). Before the pitch, Morgan yelled, "BE ALIVE" to Bench as he evidently "sniffed" it.

Bench blew it ... started to trot down to 1st base after Fingers unloaded on him with a fastball on the outer half of the plate. I was a Reds fan, and yet, it was a thing of beauty.

The Reds hung on to win that game (1-0) in a classic pitcher's duel.

carolinablue
08-03-2009, 12:40 PM
It's reallll tough to get a strike when you and the catcher are both standing straight up...

Kinda like when the catcher sets up high to climb the ladder and the pitcher throws it about belt high down the middle. I hate that.