Pulled Foot Help Question

[ExCop]

Situation: I am BU in B. I see a pulled foot at first, rule safe. DC flips, wants me to "get help", I refuse, safe call stands.

Question: Normally I have no problem getting help from PU on swipe tags up the line or a pulled foot where I call out, and OC alleges a pulled foot. However, in this case, we have the opposite situation. How can I go to my partner for help when I have already ruled that I saw a pulled foot? What am I going to do? "Unsee" it, and reverse the call? Not a chance. So, I don't see going for help on this call as an option.

Do others have a different view (no pun intended)?

[AugieDonatelli]

No. You tell the coach that it is your call, and that if you had needed help, you would have asked before making the call. You tell him you saw it yourself, and didn't need any help.

I am generally against always going for help at a coach's request, because they normally don't understand our mechanics, and they have a false sense that both umpires are always watching the other's calls, which is ridiculous, but they think we see everything together for some reason.

[chuck1]

Situation: I am BU in B. I see a pulled foot at first, rule safe. DC flips, wants me to "get help", I refuse, safe call stands.

Question: Normally I have no problem getting help from PU on swipe tags up the line or a pulled foot where I call out, and OC alleges a pulled foot. However, in this case, we have the opposite situation. How can I go to my partner for help when I have already ruled that I saw a pulled foot? What am I going to do? "Unsee" it, and reverse the call? Not a chance. So, I don't see going for help on this call as an option.

Do others have a different view (no pun intended)?

You got into good position to see the foot on this play and you saw the 1st baseman was off the bag due to the pulled foot when the ball arrived. You ruled safe. You do not need to ask for help since you were in position to "see" and did "see" the pulled foot. The same thing goes for when you get in good position and "see" the foot "is not" off the bag. You do not get help with this either. You do not need to "unsee" either side of these "pulled foot" situations. Do not get help and if he continues to complain or gives you too much crap, eject him.

[KenGibes]

DISCLAIMER: The post below applies to normal, everyday calls that umpires regularly make, not the "Twilight Zone" plays that occasionally occur.

"Getting help" is a concept that many coaches at lower levels don't understand. At those levels you'll get requests for help for just about any call a coach disagrees with, whether the umpire was in position or not. And, of course, you'll get the occasional request for the UIC to 'overrule' a BU's call (it works like the Court of Appeals....right?)

If the umpire who is responsible for a call is in position with good angle and distance, sees the entire play, and makes the call.... why would an umpire who is 50'-100' (or more) farther away from the play with a worse angle and who has his own responsibilities to watch have a better idea of what the call should be?

Further... what if the umpire who made the call actually goes to the other umpire for "help" and the other umpire disagrees with the call? Now... you have one umpire vote for "safe" and one umpire vote for "out". Then you can pull in the head coaches and have them vote. That will put you in a 2-2 tie. I guess you could then pass out ballots to the players and spectators....

See how ridiculous "getting help" can be? Bottom line... get in position, lock in, see the play, make the call.

[TomClarke]

DISCLAIMER: The post below applies to normal, everyday calls that umpires regularly make, not the "Twilight Zone" plays that occasionally occur.

"Getting help" is a concept that many coaches at lower levels don't understand. At those levels you'll get requests for help for just about any call a coach disagrees with, whether the umpire was in position or not. And, of course, you'll get the occasional request for the UIC to 'overrule' a BU's call (it works like the Court of Appeals....right?)

If the umpire who is responsible for a call is in position with good angle and distance, sees the entire play, and makes the call.... why would an umpire who is 50'-100' (or more) farther away from the play with a worse angle and who has his own responsibilities to watch have a better idea of what the call should be?

Further... what if the umpire who made the call actually goes to the other umpire for "help" and the other umpire disagrees with the call? Now... you have one umpire vote for "safe" and one umpire vote for "out". Then you can pull in the head coaches and have them vote. That will put you in a 2-2 tie. I guess you could then pass out ballots to the players and spectators....

See how ridiculous "getting help" can be? Bottom line... get in position, lock in, see the play, make the call.

outstanding use of further and farther. good work.

[dash_riprock]

No. You tell the coach that it is your call, and that if you had needed help, you would have asked before making the call. You tell him you saw it yourself, and didn't need any help.

I am generally against always going for help at a coach's request, because they normally don't understand our mechanics, and they have a false sense that both umpires are always watching the other's calls, which is ridiculous, but they think we see everything together for some reason.
I prefer to make a call first, then get help if appropriate, and it hardly ever is.

[KenGibes]

outstanding use of further and farther. good work.

Everything I know about the English language I learned from watching TV. The use of further and farther is explained in the movie "Finding Forrester."

[dash_riprock]

Everything I know about the English language I learned from watching TV. The use of further and farther is explained in the movie "Finding Forrester."
Sure. And you probably have Strunk & White on DVD.

[Ump_84]

Here's how you should think of this situation:

The PU is responsible for watching for pulled foot and swipe tag. If you saw it on the bases, with the poor angle you invariably had, then there is nothing his advantage of position has to offer, unless you plainly blew the call.

Habitually making the call first, then asking for help, is incorrect and will lead to more of the "committee meetings" after close plays that we should seek to avoid.

[AugieDonatelli]

I prefer to make a call first, then get help if appropriate, and it hardly ever is.Help is supposed to be specific, and asked before making a call. If I make a call (safe/out fair/foul catch/no catch), I stick to it and never ask for help. The two times I've asked for help in 24 years (1 swipe, 1 pulled foot, both because I was straight-lined), I asked before I made a call. Once I make a judgment call, that's it.

[dash_riprock]

Help is supposed to be specific, and asked before making a call. If I make a call (safe/out fair/foul catch/no catch), I stick to it and never ask for help. The two times I've asked for help in 24 years (1 swipe, 1 pulled foot, both because I was straight-lined), I asked before I made a call. Once I make a judgment call, that's it.
I agree about no help on judgment calls, and I've only asked for help once on a swipe tag (the one time I got help on a pulled foot my partner "announced" it without being asked, but that's another story).

As for getting help before or after making the call, credible sources support each school of thought. MLBUM and NCAA say to get help shortly after making the call; Jim Evans espouses doing it before any signal is made.

[AugieDonatelli]

As for getting help before or after making the call, credible sources support each school of thought. MLBUM and NCAA say to get help shortly after making the call; Jim Evans espouses doing it before any signal is made.Well, as much as it pains me, I agree with Evans on this one!:)