Another lesson for me

[Richard_Siegel]

I have a lot of experience. I have umpired over 2000 games. I've seen many things and learned many lessons on the ball field the hard way from making many stupid mistakes. I've also have been fortunate enough to have worked with many partners who are better umpires than me, some who are former MiLB umpires and I learned lots of things from them too. Form this background I have been able to give good advice to many new umpires and I have been fortunate to have the responsibility to train new umpires coming in to the ranks of HS baseball and softball for my association. However, there is one experience I have never had until today which gives me a new appreciation on all the advice I have given. It makes me wonder why I bother to give all this good advice if I don't follow it myself.

Today I umpired in a local 18u tournament where one of the teams in my game was manged by a former MLB player. This manager was a former player for the NY Mets, (and several other MLB teams during the 90's) whom I rooted for back then when I was not umpiring. He was a player I liked to watch and I admit, I was a bit starstruck to meet him. Like many professional athletes he was very friendly and easy to talk to. I didn't ask for an autograph and I did not acknowledge any reference to his professional career, but he knew I knew who he was. I don't want to identify him here because he showed himself to be, once the game got going, a first class rat. I don't want to besmirch his reputation on a public forum because he is a nice guy.... except when he manages his team. He played me like a fiddle. I'm going to call him "Bobby."

The game got started and Bobby's team was the home team. I punched the first batter out on strikes on a fast ball painted right at the lower-outside corner of the strike zone. B2 grounded out. The 1-2 pitch to B3 was about the same place as the 3rd strike pitch to B1. However I balled it because F2 had set up way outside and he had to reach back over HP to catch it. It was a strike but I balled it and then I regretted doing it. B3 then grounded out to end the inning.

Between innings Bobby came out and asked me where that last "ball" I called on B3 was. He was very friendly and polite. "just asking" he said. I said, "Bobby, I might have called it too quickly, it was a great pitch but the movement of the catcher kind of threw me off." Yes I said that. Booby said, "That's OK Richard (he remembered to use my name), everybody makes a mistake now and then." and walked up to his coach's box at 3B.

In the 2nd inning with Bobby's team at bat, I called a strike on one of his batter's at the knees in the inside part of the plate. The batter jumped backward. Bobby called out to me, "Richard, call that one too quickly?" He was using my own words against me. In the next inning he is now in the dugout on defense, another call on the corner he doesn't like, "Richard, slow down. You're calling them too quickly."

After the inning he walks by be and stops to ask where the pitches were again. I still haven't come to my senses. "Bobby you can see where Pete's (F2) mitt is when catches it. Some are outside some are not." Bobby says, "So Pete's the one screwing up your strike zone, like when you said before 'the movement of the catcher' was throwing you off?" Finally the light bulb began to go off. He remembered another stupid thing I said from the first inning and was using it against me. Bobby was very smart.

I said, "Bobby, that's not true." He walked up to his coach's box. I finally realized I was debating my strike zone with a manager and I was trying to justify my calls to him. It was a complete violation of every bit of advice I have ever given and something I have never done before with a coach.

After the 4th inning Bobby was walking past me coming back from his coach's box. His team was losing 5 to 0. He was now about to step it up. In that same polite and friendly approach, almost fatherly, he says to me. "Richard, you have both team yelling at you. When are you going to get these pitches right?" I came back with, "Bobby, I'm not going to discuss the strike with you anymore. Keep going to your bench." can you imaging saying that to a guy you cheered for? Can you imagine saying that to John Tudor, or Scott Kamieniecki? (BTW, Bobby was neither of those guys).

Bobby immediately went to his bench, but started beefing at me loudly, "You gotta bear down, Richard. You can't keep making these calls so quickly." I had to do it. I said, "Bobby that's enough! Knock it off!" I cringed inside. But he went to his seat, sat down, and I didn't hear him again. The bottom of the 5th featured his team getting shelled by 5 more runs and the game ended on 10-0 mercy rule. I can't say I was upset that Bobby's team got their asses kicked. After all I got my ass kicked, and not by Bobby. By me. I kicked my ass all the way home for being so stupid as to believe that he was just being friendly.

The lesson for me and you... Someday you will get a chance to umpire game where a famous or notable figure will be the manager. He will be your pal and make toy feel comfortable and special just to speak to him. Then he will use everything you say against you to screw with you. When you get to work with this special person treat him like everybody else. Don't change your ways, make him follow the same rules you enforce on everybody else. After all, these guys were experts at playing the game which also means they are experts at playing dumb umpires like me.

[SocalBlue1]

Richard,

You just re-learned rule #1.

[heyblue26]

Richard: Such great advice and story I will hopefully learn from your experience that you have posted and every word you mention about how he will be so friendly and then use everything of what was said back on you. Thanks for the Great lesson.

[Ozzy]

Rich, nothing good comes of discussing the strike zone and I've said it for years. You just proved that your own advice can get you in trouble. It's just not worth it.

[ExCop]

Richard, a few thoughts:

1. No matter how experienced or smart you are, evenutally you will meet someone more experienced or smart. This law is universal.

2. This is precisely why I prefer my non-communicative/rude/stand-offish game management approach to your verbal judo approach. I (speaking just for myself now) have found it to have far less risk than any form of engagement/rapport approach.

3. Don't be mad at Bobby. He taught you something that has made you a far better umpire. It sounds silly, but when I am totally disgusted with a game I did I donate the game fee to a charity I support (Catholic guilt?).

Regardless, this kind of honest post is the reason most of us would love to work a game with you. Thanks Richard.

[Dano]

Well, it doesn't bother me to drop names.

If you umpire in KC long enough you are likely to run into Joe Carter.

Joe can be as nice of a person you will ever meet. But when things don't go his way he will infamously use the line:

"Do you know who I am?"


When they think they are bigger than the game itself, and when we agree with that assesment.... bad things are sure to happen.



Thanks for sharing Richard.

[Richard_Siegel]

....You just proved that your own advice can get you in trouble. It's just not worth it.

I just proved that NOT FOLLOWING my own advice can get you in trouble!

[CoachJM]

Richard,

Great post.

JM

[uame]

That is an awesome story. Kudos, first of all, for being brutally honest with the readers of this forum. With the general anonymity of the internet, it is very tempting for some people to build a facade. Once someone starts down that road, the landmines grow bigger and bigger as they try to maintain this false image. An unsolicited confession of this type is refreshing, and lends even more credibility to your reputation.

My only other response to this story is: Baseball is baseball. The "rat tactics" that Bobby employed don't seem to be too underhanded to me. It sounds like his team could only have benefited if he could have led you to a point of second-guessing yourself. Regardless of how well things might have gone during the game, you weren't going to make a lasting impression on Bobby. He was there to win, and you were the umpire. The only comparable situation I have ever had was that I once had to run the school principal. That's not a former major leaguer, but as a teenage student, that is something that takes a minute to build up the nerve to do. Fortunately, I reasoned with myself rather quickly that within the fences of that ball field, he was nothing more than a coach and I was nothing more (or less) than the umpire.

[Ozzy]

I just proved that NOT FOLLOWING my own advice can get you in trouble!
Rich, you have stated time and time again that under certain circumstances, you will discuss your strike zone. I am on the other side of that fence and always have been.

Just a reminder, that's all.

Peace

[SocalBlue1]

Well, it doesn't bother me to drop names.

If you umpire in KC long enough you are likely to run into Joe Carter.

Joe can be as nice of a person you will ever meet. But when things don't go his way he will infamously use the line:

"Do you know who I am?"


When they think they are bigger than the game itself, and when we agree with that assessment.... bad things are sure to happen.



Thanks for sharing Richard.

Response: "You name is Joe & you belong in the dugout".

[Dano]

Response: "You name is Joe & you belong in the dugout".


:)

I did one game last year where he wasn't coaching but a spectator with his son playing.

I could hear him chirping.. didn't pay him no mind.

After the game, I walked by and said "Sup Joe?" and just kept walking.

[bretth]

That's why on the inside of my line up holder/folder deal I have written in ink

"They are all rats" it reminds me that no matter how nice they are to your face they are only looking for an angle to gain any advantage. I don't know why I am surprised sometimes to see how some of these coaches act.

[willv28]

Great post. Your advice is something I like to follow in this regard. I've been almost suckered in but never been in that match. I'm not one for shouting matches or back and fourth. I say only what I need to and only acknowledge a coach when they're going to far with things like "that's enough" if they're coming out to argue, I explain it once and from there I get frustrated. Luckily I have a general dislike for everyone. So it helps. But I'm not "rough" or anything like that to handle it. I just prefer a

[CoachJM]

willv,

...I just prefer a

"...n unfinished sentence." ??? Just guessin'.

JM

[Pete_Booth]

[QUOTE=Richard_Siegel;88042]I have a lot of experience. I have umpired over 2000 games. I've seen many things and learned many lessons on the ball field the hard way from making many stupid mistakes. It makes me wonder why I bother to give all this good advice if I don't follow it myself.

Richard good story but no matter how experienced one is we are all HUMAN and have that game where it seems like everything we learned "went out the window"

Great players / coaches etc. all make mistakes no matter how experienced.

On the internet whenever advice is given etc. there is a TIME factor which unfortunately we do not have when we are on the ball field.

We talk about rules etc. however, on the internet we have TIME to research JR, Evans the MLBUM or look up a FED rule and case play. We do not have that luxory on the field.

In a way it's like being a parent. We give our kids advice but sometimes we do not heed our OWN advice. It happens and as I stated above it's called being HUMAN.

It doesn't appear that this famed person is good at managing. His team was getting drilled and all he seemed to focus on was your zone. What about the play of his team. he lost 10-0 because of your zone? NO WAY. They lost because they sucked this particular day and that's what the coach should be focusing on.

Pete Booth

[AugieDonatelli]

I've umpired quite a few former big league players as both coaches and players. I always try to keep in mind that they are rats and not let myself get too star-struck. I start out thinking that they are going to try to work me, because they have that MLB experience. Some of them turn out to be genuinely nice, but not most of them.

[SocalBlue1]

Guess I have been lucky. No real issues on the coach / manager side for me. Problem children are the ex-minor league guys, whether coaching or playing in a local mens league.

Had one guy (Pitcher) who came out of the Braves organization. Made it to AA/AAA with a couple of very short stints with the big club. Decent stuff but nothing special, IMO made it that far because he was a lefty. Whining about my strike zone ... walked by the plate after an inning & commented "Those would have been strikes for Tommy (Glavine)". My response was "You aren't Glavine & I'm not Eric Gregg. Now get the #$#@ out of here!".

[torquer]

I have a lot of experience. I have umpired over 2000 games. I've seen many things and learned many lessons on the ball field the hard way from making many stupid mistakes. I've also have been fortunate enough to have worked with many partners who are better umpires than me, some who are former MiLB umpires and I learned lots of things from them too. Form this background I have been able to give good advice to many new umpires and I have been fortunate to have the responsibility to train new umpires coming in to the ranks of HS baseball and softball for my association. However, there is one experience I have never had until today which gives me a new appreciation on all the advice I have given. It makes me wonder why I bother to give all this good advice if I don't follow it myself.

Today I umpired in a local 18u tournament where one of the teams in my game was manged by a former MLB player. This manager was a former player for the NY Mets, (and several other MLB teams during the 90's) whom I rooted for back then when I was not umpiring. He was a player I liked to watch and I admit, I was a bit starstruck to meet him. Like many professional athletes he was very friendly and easy to talk to. I didn't ask for an autograph and I did not acknowledge any reference to his professional career, but he knew I knew who he was. I don't want to identify him here because he showed himself to be, once the game got going, a first class rat. I don't want to besmirch his reputation on a public forum because he is a nice guy.... except when he manages his team. He played me like a fiddle. I'm going to call him "Bobby."

The game got started and Bobby's team was the home team. I punched the first batter out on strikes on a fast ball painted right at the lower-outside corner of the strike zone. B2 grounded out. The 1-2 pitch to B3 was about the same place as the 3rd strike pitch to B1. However I balled it because F2 had set up way outside and he had to reach back over HP to catch it. It was a strike but I balled it and then I regretted doing it. B3 then grounded out to end the inning.

Between innings Bobby came out and asked me where that last "ball" I called on B3 was. He was very friendly and polite. "just asking" he said. I said, "Bobby, I might have called it too quickly, it was a great pitch but the movement of the catcher kind of threw me off." Yes I said that. Booby said, "That's OK Richard (he remembered to use my name), everybody makes a mistake now and then." and walked up to his coach's box at 3B.

In the 2nd inning with Bobby's team at bat, I called a strike on one of his batter's at the knees in the inside part of the plate. The batter jumped backward. Bobby called out to me, "Richard, call that one too quickly?" He was using my own words against me. In the next inning he is now in the dugout on defense, another call on the corner he doesn't like, "Richard, slow down. You're calling them too quickly."

After the inning he walks by be and stops to ask where the pitches were again. I still haven't come to my senses. "Bobby you can see where Pete's (F2) mitt is when catches it. Some are outside some are not." Bobby says, "So Pete's the one screwing up your strike zone, like when you said before 'the movement of the catcher' was throwing you off?" Finally the light bulb began to go off. He remembered another stupid thing I said from the first inning and was using it against me. Bobby was very smart.

I said, "Bobby, that's not true." He walked up to his coach's box. I finally realized I was debating my strike zone with a manager and I was trying to justify my calls to him. It was a complete violation of every bit of advice I have ever given and something I have never done before with a coach.

After the 4th inning Bobby was walking past me coming back from his coach's box. His team was losing 5 to 0. He was now about to step it up. In that same polite and friendly approach, almost fatherly, he says to me. "Richard, you have both team yelling at you. When are you going to get these pitches right?" I came back with, "Bobby, I'm not going to discuss the strike with you anymore. Keep going to your bench." can you imaging saying that to a guy you cheered for? Can you imagine saying that to John Tudor, or Scott Kamieniecki? (BTW, Bobby was neither of those guys).

Bobby immediately went to his bench, but started beefing at me loudly, "You gotta bear down, Richard. You can't keep making these calls so quickly." I had to do it. I said, "Bobby that's enough! Knock it off!" I cringed inside. But he went to his seat, sat down, and I didn't hear him again. The bottom of the 5th featured his team getting shelled by 5 more runs and the game ended on 10-0 mercy rule. I can't say I was upset that Bobby's team got their asses kicked. After all I got my ass kicked, and not by Bobby. By me. I kicked my ass all the way home for being so stupid as to believe that he was just being friendly.

The lesson for me and you... Someday you will get a chance to umpire game where a famous or notable figure will be the manager. He will be your pal and make toy feel comfortable and special just to speak to him. Then he will use everything you say against you to screw with you. When you get to work with this special person treat him like everybody else. Don't change your ways, make him follow the same rules you enforce on everybody else. After all, these guys were experts at playing the game which also means they are experts at playing dumb umpires like me.


Baseball pshychology rule: no discussion of the strike zone. Rule two, coaches will throw you under the bus in a second. We've had former MLB players as coaches at SATB. A famous manager with the Tigers now, he was a handful with some of our umps. This is a tactic i believe with coaches, if they are nice they can get away with what they know is against the rules.

Jess

[TarheelUmp]

Great post Richard.

[MCLEOD36]

Richard...

Nice Post.... and so very true....

[penguin]

Great post, great info. Self-criticism is how we improve.....I learned a great deal from your experience!

[heathen]

Thank you, Richard. This was (yet another) excellent post.

The time I caught a snake with my bare hands, I didn't blame the snake when he bit me, I blamed myself for letting him. Savvy managers will try to get into their opponents' heads, and the really savvy managers will try to get into yours, and I hold them blameless for doing so; I blame myself when they succeed.

This was another lesson for all of us, Richard. Thanks for sharing.

[dmilloy]

Richard...I repect all of your posts --especially this one. Be assured that recounting this situation from your experience is very helpful to any new umpire, like myself. I don't trust coaches at all; when I'm "nice", I find myself getting into trouble.

Thanks again...

[DP]

Richard, thanks for sharing this story with us. Every day we do learn something new or are reminded of something we knew and forgot.(With me it is mostly things I forgot.) I work an adult league that has several ex-major/minor league players and lots of college kids in it. I see many umpires trying to act gentlemanly by engaging in conversation with coaches & players over various things. It seems so innocent. That sad truth is that usually exactly what happened to you happens to them. Some time ago an experienced official(can't remember if it was football or baseball I do both) told me, "always remember you can't get in trouble for what you don't say." Pretty good advice, I think. However, at times I have stepped in it too. I try to guard against it by not engaging players or coaches but I am told some guys think I am cold or aloof or don't care. (Actually what I don't care about is what they think.) Hey it happens and by sharing it is just a good reminder. Again, thanks.