Signalfan

[Richard_Siegel]

I just got the email below from our state baseball/softball administrator. It involves the "Signalfan," a device I have never heard of. The rule he cites is a softball rule becuase the item was being used by softball coaches, however the same ruling appiles for baseball since baseball has the same rule, 3-3-1i.

If you don't know what the Signalfan is you can see it at this website: http://www.sportsignalfan.com

Please be advised that the Signalfan, a color coded device designed to give signals to the batter/runner violates rule 3 Section 6 Article 10: “Objects, other than scorekeeping materials/devices, in the coach’s box are prohibited.” This Signalfan maybe used in the dugout and for levels of play outside of high school ball, if those governing bodies so allow it.
Umpires should not allow this device to be used.
Please share this with your members ASAP.

[mr umpire]

I wonder if those who are color blind would have a problem with this. And, how hard is it to watch hand signals? That is all I grew up with while playing baseball. It sounds like she was having the problem with hand signals and not being able to teach her players how to read them. And, wouldn't this be easier for the other team to figure out. I mean if you see red, yellow, and green and then they do a hit-and-run. That can be picked up in just 1 or 2 at-bats.

[Richard_Siegel]

When I played the HC just shouted out 4 numbers, like: "12-3-64-81" When you were at bat if you forgot which one you tapped your head and he would flash you which one with his fingers.

A the begining of each inning in the dugout he would tell us the "go number" which is number to follow for that inning: The first, the 2nd, 3rd, or the last one.

The last digit of that number was the sign. So he had four choices: 1 was take, 2 was hit away, 3 was the hit and run, 4 was bunt. Anything else was "do what you want to." He would make hand signals too, but they never meant anything.

If the "go number" was 3 and he shouted "12-3-64-81" it meant bunt.

[BrianC14]

ROFLMAO - - they're joking, right?

"over 10,000 possible combinations! "

I can see it now...

Coach: You knucklehead! Everyone knows that the bunt sign is OrangeRedBlueGreenYellowBlueRed! Why did you think I signaled OrangeRedBlueGreenRedYellowBlue?"

[BrianC14]

I wonder if those who are color blind would have a problem with this. And, how hard is it to watch hand signals? That is all I grew up with while playing baseball. It sounds like she was having the problem with hand signals and not being able to teach her players how to read them. And, wouldn't this be easier for the other team to figure out. I mean if you see red, yellow, and green and then they do a hit-and-run. That can be picked up in just 1 or 2 at-bats.


Agreed.

At my school, the "leading" signal was when the 3B coach went to the bill of his cap - then the signal followed that.

And couldn't they have made these things just a tad LARGER? I mean, the folks out in the south parking lot might not be able to see it from 250 yards away!

These things are nearly the size of the "fans" the old signal devices used on aircraft carriers! And this thing is $30.00 !?! Good grief.

[mr umpire]

When I played the HC just shouted out 4 numbers, like: "12-3-64-81" When you were at bat if you forgot which one you tapped your head and he would flash you which one with his fingers.

A the begining of each inning in the dugout he would tell us the "go number" which is number to follow for that inning: The first, the 2nd, 3rd, or the last one.

The last digit of that number was the sign. So he had four choices: 1 was take, 2 was hit away, 3 was the hit and run, 4 was bunt. Anything else was "do what you want to." He would make hand signals too, but they never meant anything.

If the "go number" was 3 and he shouted "12-3-64-81" it meant bunt.

I wonder which finger he flashed if you missed the sign.

[Ozzy]

This SignalFan is a joke, right? It is illegal to use in FED baseball, as Rich stated.

Beside, I just can't picture some of these body building HS Varsity coaches waving that prissy thing around!

[cakert]

I wonder if those who are color blind would have a problem with this. And, how hard is it to watch hand signals? That is all I grew up with while playing baseball. It sounds like she was having the problem with hand signals and not being able to teach her players how to read them. And, wouldn't this be easier for the other team to figure out. I mean if you see red, yellow, and green and then they do a hit-and-run. That can be picked up in just 1 or 2 at-bats.
The signs are hidden in the group of blades so teams really cannot decipher your signs. you may even use an indicator blade and the one next to it be the sign. Directions and number of paddles may be used as well. It is extremely variable. But players get it easily and see it easily. Haven't you had players ever miss a sign? I don't know a coach who hasn't.

[cakert]

I wonder if those who are color blind would have a problem with this. And, how hard is it to watch hand signals? That is all I grew up with while playing baseball. It sounds like she was having the problem with hand signals and not being able to teach her players how to read them. And, wouldn't this be easier for the other team to figure out. I mean if you see red, yellow, and green and then they do a hit-and-run. That can be picked up in just 1 or 2 at-bats.
It is so difficult for your opponent to figure out. There really are so many ways to use it. It is really durable too. It isn't for every coach or team but it has its place. And when seen in action, even umpires are very impressed with the Signalfan. Surprisingly even the more seasoned ones. And from the dugout it is excellent for calling a pick off play!

[scoop]

Couple points:
1) The whole point is that it doesn't need to be hidden. Yes, we want the whole team to see it because there are thousands of ways to use it. Sure, if you only put blue and red up together over and over and bunts happen, other people will get your signs, but the same thing happens if you just touch your hat and your belt and your batters bunt over and over. It's not a magical device; it's simply better than the other methods.
2) You don't have to repeat the signs- like you do if they're hand signals or "go" numbers and the players miss them. The players simply look til they get it.
3) Your go number option (as you described it) has limited possibilities- and what if you want to combine plays? push bunt + steal? How many numbers does your coach have to call out? And if your coach gets laryngitis? Bummer.
4) Color blind people generally have trouble differentiating only between 2 colors (eg. red and green). If you have a color-blind player on your team, you can make adjustments accordingly, just as if you would if you were a "go" number team and you had a deaf player.
5) High School boys varsity coaches who think it's too prissy don't have to use it. It's a set of plastic paddles. How many of them volunteered to be whacked with plastic or wooden paddles when they pledged frats in college? Get over it.
6) Just because the device is new and not entirely understood by some coaches doesn't mean it shouldn't be permitted. Some coaches like to argue with me that there isn't much worth to bunts. They don't have to call them for their team, and they don't have to use the Signalfan, but I should be allowed to use it for mine if I think it's better for my players.
...for you tunnel-vision folks out there who can't think your way out of a box, let alone what to do outside it.

[BrianC14]

Gee, let me guess - the SignalFan marketing team has just paid a visit to the ABUA forum...

LOL

:)

[mr umpire]

Gee, let me guess - the SignalFan marketing team has just paid a visit to the ABUA forum...

LOL

:)

No doubt. Does ABUA get paid for the advertisement?:mrgreen:

[BrianC14]

Skip - do you want a bunt here? :)

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g50000/g56292.jpg

[cec233]

BrianC14 that was actually funny ^ got a chuckle out of me, but the fans look nothing like that. Close though; maybe you should check it out to actually see the product you are busting on. I played for a coach that used the signal fan and umpires would constantly ask me where it came from. One even told me that he had always been able to read the signs of every coach but couldn't figure out ours. I actually took pride in it. If you don't like it don't buy it, unless of course you want to hit yourself in the ass for not thinking of it first. ---> "LOL"

[Ozzy]

BrianC14 that was actually funny ^ got a chuckle out of me, but the fans look nothing like that. Close though; maybe you should check it out to actually see the product you are busting on. I played for a coach that used the signal fan and umpires would constantly ask me where it came from. One even told me that he had always been able to read the signs of every coach but couldn't figure out ours. I actually took pride in it. If you don't like it don't buy it, unless of course you want to hit yourself in the ass for not thinking of it first. ---> "LOL"
This is all well and good, but I reiterate that according to FED rules, it is illegal to use in a HS baseball game!

[mr umpire]

If you don't like it don't buy it, unless of course you want to hit yourself in the ass for not thinking of it first. ---> "LOL"

Not funny, actually lame.

The point is why is someone dumbing down the game b/c they can't teach their players how to read the signs. If someone can pick up the signs, then that coach needs to work harder at being a little more intelligent or quit giving signs.

Also, I wish all codes had the same rule of do not allow something like this on the field for base coaches. This is definitely one FED rule I like. As Brian showed, why not just have flags and show the flags that way. Same concept and ridiculous looking on a ball field.

This is something which will NEVER(hopefully) make it to the professional level and very few at the lower level. This is something I would expect to see in softball b/c they have to do things in LOUD manner such as singing the cheers from the bench all the time(which is absolutely annoying to hear and I have to call baseball games where the players have picked up on the idea). What happened to cheering for your team and quit instead of these stupid cheerleader like chants?

I'm glad you have come along and resurrected this thread. It gave me a chance to vent about some of the other pet peeves I have with what has found its way from softball to baseball.

[torquer]

Couple points:
1) The whole point is that it doesn't need to be hidden. Yes, we want the whole team to see it because there are thousands of ways to use it. Sure, if you only put blue and red up together over and over and bunts happen, other people will get your signs, but the same thing happens if you just touch your hat and your belt and your batters bunt over and over. It's not a magical device; it's simply better than the other methods.
2) You don't have to repeat the signs- like you do if they're hand signals or "go" numbers and the players miss them. The players simply look til they get it.
3) Your go number option (as you described it) has limited possibilities- and what if you want to combine plays? push bunt + steal? How many numbers does your coach have to call out? And if your coach gets laryngitis? Bummer.
4) Color blind people generally have trouble differentiating only between 2 colors (eg. red and green). If you have a color-blind player on your team, you can make adjustments accordingly, just as if you would if you were a "go" number team and you had a deaf player.
5) High School boys varsity coaches who think it's too prissy don't have to use it. It's a set of plastic paddles. How many of them volunteered to be whacked with plastic or wooden paddles when they pledged frats in college? Get over it.
6) Just because the device is new and not entirely understood by some coaches doesn't mean it shouldn't be permitted. Some coaches like to argue with me that there isn't much worth to bunts. They don't have to call them for their team, and they don't have to use the Signalfan, but I should be allowed to use it for mine if I think it's better for my players.
...for you tunnel-vision folks out there who can't think your way out of a box, let alone what to do outside it.


I won't allow it on the field. To girly!!!!!!!!!! Let the coach use hand signals.

Jess J/K

[BrianC14]

BrianC14 that was actually funny ^ got a chuckle out of me, but the fans look nothing like that. Close though; maybe you should check it out to actually see the product you are busting on. I played for a coach that used the signal fan and umpires would constantly ask me where it came from. One even told me that he had always been able to read the signs of every coach but couldn't figure out ours. I actually took pride in it. If you don't like it don't buy it, unless of course you want to hit yourself in the ass for not thinking of it first. ---> "LOL"

I'd really like to meet this "umpire" that is watching the 3B coach with such focus that he's taking the time to figure out the coach's signals.

[KenGibes]

What's next... tiny receivers and speakers in the batting helmets? When will people understand that baseball is a game that is rooted in tradition more than most other sports, and innovation isn't readily accepted?

I played for a high school coach who believed that, except for the suicide squeeze play, the defense got little or no benefit from knowing what you were going to do next. In fact, knowing sometimes caused the defense problems.

At times our coach would yell his instructions from the 3rd base coaching box. "If you get a good jump, go ahead and take off!" or "Let's bunt the runner over to 3rd!" You'd be surprised how that sometimes tightened-up the defense to the point where they couldn't execute a play.

I know it sounds counter to conventional wisdom, and I doubt it would work at the higher levels where ballplayers have greater ability to execute plays, but my high school coach enjoyed quite a bit of success using it.

[MCLEOD36]

LOL, you guys are out of control.

As a followup to the nautical theme, red fan in the morning, batters warning; red flag at night, batters RUN all night..

[BrianC14]

LOL, you guys are out of control.

As a followup to the nautical theme, red fan in the morning, batters warning; red flag at night, batters RUN all night..

ROFLMAO.... having served 10 years in the Navy, I really like that one! LOL

[coach5]

:eek: Hey guys, I am the designer of the Signalfan. I just wanted to let you know it was designed for softball. Not because I cannot give signals well but because I always have coached with 2 very good men coaches and we would take turns running the offense throughout the season. We had slightly different styles of giving signals. Sometimes our girls would be unsure of the sign. We were all players; One coach was a scholarship athlete to U of Penn for baseball, one I coach with now played baseball for Penn State, and I was a scholarship recipient for softball at Temple University. Girls yell and chant at exciting games so verbal communication (like numbers) doesn't work when you need it most. And my voice sounds too much like theirs. It may be prissy for some of you, I don't doubt it. But it is not a dummy down, it is an alternative idea. I have even had ranked college softball teams using it for pick off plays. Softball and girls are not really the same as baseball and guys. I love the game of softball and have volunteer coached for 20 years from Little league, ASA, Pony, and also High School the past 8 years. This idea was born out of the love of the game. So I understand if you don't use it, if it embarrasses you, or you feel it is undignified. But until you see how well it works for some of us you may want to go a little less harsh. It really is simply a visual aid, like our yellow softballs. As for the cost, it waill last many , many years and it is made in the USA and a portion of every sale goes to Autism foundations like pinnigdownautism.com.

[BrianC14]

:eek: Hey guys, I am the designer of the Signalfan. I just wanted to let you know it was designed for softball. Not because I cannot give signals well but because I always have coached with 2 very good men coaches and we would take turns running the offense throughout the season. We had slightly different styles of giving signals. Sometimes our girls would be unsure of the sign. We were all players; One coach was a scholarship athlete to U of Penn for baseball, one I coach with now played baseball for Penn State, and I was a scholarship recipient for softball at Temple University. Girls yell and chant at exciting games so verbal communication (like numbers) doesn't work when you need it most. And my voice sounds too much like theirs. It may be prissy for some of you, I don't doubt it. But it is not a dummy down, it is an alternative idea. I have even had ranked college softball teams using it for pick off plays. Softball and girls are not really the same as baseball and guys. I love the game of softball and have volunteer coached for 20 years from Little league, ASA, Pony, and also High School the past 8 years. This idea was born out of the love of the game. So I understand if you don't use it, if it embarrasses you, or you feel it is undignified. But until you see how well it works for some of us you may want to go a little less harsh. It really is simply a visual aid, like our yellow softballs. As for the cost, it waill last many , many years and it is made in the USA and a portion of every sale goes to Autism foundations like pinnigdownautism.com.


Alright Coach, I'll be the first to say (since I've been poking a lot of the fun) that I truly hope you do well with SignalFan, and I salute your service to the game of softball, and I am especially impressed that you also provide funding to a very worthy charity like the Autism foundations.

Best of luck to you, Coach. :)

[seth503]

Ummm, Coach, this is the Amateur Baseball Umpires Association board. I don't think anybody here is going to buy it unless it gives us more strikes and outs. :)

[EMBUAump]

Is it really that much harder to figure out signs? When I was in high school all I did was look for consistent signals given that would lead to the indicator. The same still holds true with the fan. Every time you see black next to red there’s a curve and black next to blue it’s a fast ball. Sure you can move it around and put different colors around it, but black still would be next to some color every time.

I wish you all the best, hope you're able to give millions to charity.

[coach5]

Thank you Brian C14 for taking the time to read my message and for your kind words. I very much appreciate it! If you have time, check out that amazing Autism web site. www.pinningdownautism.com

[c_harding_23]

What's next... tiny receivers and speakers in the batting helmets? When will people understand that baseball is a game that is rooted in tradition more than most other sports, and innovation isn't readily accepted?

I think that might be the next logical step, unfortunately....

The only reason I can see the potential use of this might possibly be for a deaf player, but then again, one would assume they could see the hand signals.

If it is used to aid (I hate this term) handicapped player, then I can see a use. Otherwise, it seems to be a well-developed P.O.S. to me.

[mr umpire]

Otherwise, it seems to be a well-developed P.O.S. to me.

:D lol