another infield fly question.

[ORsouthpaw]

I have been in a two season conversation with one of our volunteer umpires. This is LL (minors division) and here is the quandry.

He says that infield fly rule can be used at his discretion. Meaning if he's doing a minor level game he tells both managers that the rule will not be in effect. His thought is that the 9-11yo kids are not going to be able to take advantage of an intentional ball drop and make the subsequent double play.

I agree to some extent (but I have seen some players that are exceptions) I have told him that telling the managers before the game starts that he will knowingly ommit a written rule is opening himself up to all kinds of scutiny including a possible protest situation.

So the question stands... Does an umpire have the luxury of verbally ommiting the written rules in LL? My understanding of it is that all games played at the farm level and above are to be played with the infield fly rule in effect. Of course if he doesn't call it because it would have taken more than ordinary effort to catch in his opinion that's all together different. :)

[chuktownblue]

I find it ludicrous. If the local league wishes to make a bylaw stating that rule isn't going to be used for 9-10 year olds (the minors), fine. It's suppose to be an instructional league anyhow. But every 11-12 year old team I've seen can easily take advantage of not enforcing that rule. And I'm not even referring to travel ball, just local Dixie, LL and Cal Ripken.

Regardless of telling the coaches or not... setting aside possible scrutiny or protests (this umpire obviously doesn't care about that anyhow).... simply deciding not to call that is disrespectful to the kids, IMO.

[dash_riprock]

Regardless of telling the coaches or not... setting aside possible scrutiny or protests (this umpire obviously doesn't care about that anyhow).... simply deciding not to call that is disrespectful to the kids, IMO.
Worse than that, he's forgoing an out!

[heyblue26]

Rules are written for a reason to teach the kid's how the game is played correctly. If the local league has something in its by-laws that the Infield Fly Rule will not be called at a certain age level then fine. But for an umpire to call a game and because he feels it is not right should not be calling these kids games.

He is setting a bad example as a umpire. Enforce the rules as they are for that level of play. Do not make them up because you think in your opinion that they will not understand the rule any way. As an umpire you are there to control and enforce the rules of the game of baseball. IMO

[shickenbottom]

As part of any LL, no league can write any rule that superceedes any rule in the LL rule book. That said, any league who chooses to write such a rule, is in jeopardy of having their entire progam be de-chartered. Any district that knowingly allows individual leagues to write rules that superceed the rule book, risks being dis-qualified from state, regional, sectional, national, and international tournaments at all levels.

Any official who chooses to verbally announce that certain rules will not be adhered to is doing the players, coaches, fans and the game a real dis-service.

The IFF rule is written so that umpire judgement is one of the primary qualifiers. If you read the rule, "Ordinary Effort" you can extrapolate that certain levels will have better or worse effort from the players. However, anytime you can get a legitimate out, take it, it's one less you have to worry about as the game goes along.

[Ozzy]

The IFF only gives the umpire digression as to whether the fielder can make the catch with ordinary effort. It does not allow the umpire to take the player's abilities into consideration. If that were the case, the IFF wouldn't be called until Freshman year in HS!

My advise is if you are going to umpire, umpire according to the rules or get off the field!

[chuktownblue]

As part of any LL, no league can write any rule that superceedes any rule in the LL rule book. That said, any league who chooses to write such a rule, is in jeopardy of having their entire progam be de-chartered. Any district that knowingly allows individual leagues to write rules that superceed the rule book, risks being dis-qualified from state, regional, sectional, national, and international tournaments at all levels.

Though a younger kid can play-up in Majors division, Minors doesn't have higher level tournaments, and LL does give leagues quite a bit of leeway and a few options on the managing of their Minors division. LL is more of a kid-based league, where the others are basically just baseball. LL has more restrictions and "protections" of the kids playing. As an umpire, I can understand the reasoning behind some of them, but it seems many of the localities here are opting out to Babe Ruth/Cal Ripken. Dixie seems to be fading too.

[Rich_Ives]

The IFF only gives the umpire digression as to whether the fielder can make the catch with ordinary effort. It does not allow the umpire to take the player's abilities into consideration. If that were the case, the IFF wouldn't be called until Freshman year in HS!

My advise is if you are going to umpire, umpire according to the rules or get off the field!


While it may not allow an umpire to judge an individual player's abilities, it does allow one to judge what is expected at a particular level. Ordinary effort by a LL infielder is certainly dififferent than ordinary effort by a MLB player - with some kind of scale-up as the levels progress.

[Ozzy]

While it may not allow an umpire to judge an individual player's abilities, it does allow one to judge what is expected at a particular level. Ordinary effort by a LL infielder is certainly dififferent than ordinary effort by a MLB player - with some kind of scale-up as the levels progress.
Right Rich. The LL player has less ground to cover (60' vs 90') and is younger and more agile as opposed to a 25 to 40 year old fielder mozying around with his walker around the infield! :D:D:D

[nopachunts]

Though a younger kid can play-up in Majors division, Minors doesn't have higher level tournaments, and LL does give leagues quite a bit of leeway and a few options on the managing of their Minors division. LL is more of a kid-based league, where the others are basically just baseball. LL has more restrictions and "protections" of the kids playing. As an umpire, I can understand the reasoning behind some of them, but it seems many of the localities here are opting out to Babe Ruth/Cal Ripken. Dixie seems to be fading too.

Chuktownblue,
Must be up to the individual regions for upper level play. I'm in East Texas and did 9-10 All-Stars at the local and District levels last year. You should talk to the UIC, Local League Umpire Coordinator, or BOD and have some extra training arranged for your umpire friend. At the Minor League, it is hard enough to get coaches to understand all the rules, not just the ones we will enforce.

[Rich_Ives]

Right Rich. The LL player has less ground to cover (60' vs 90') and is younger and more agile as opposed to a 25 to 40 year old fielder mozying around with his walker around the infield! :D:D:D

You need to spend moe time watching LL games.

[chuktownblue]

Chuktownblue,
Must be up to the individual regions for upper level play. I'm in East Texas and did 9-10 All-Stars at the local and District levels last year. You should talk to the UIC, Local League Umpire Coordinator, or BOD and have some extra training arranged for your umpire friend. At the Minor League, it is hard enough to get coaches to understand all the rules, not just the ones we will enforce.

We have different interpretations of "upper level." Sorry about the terminology.

[umpgent]

Very healthy discussion.
Very wrong forum.

[Assign]

He says that infield fly rule can be used at his discretion. Meaning if he's doing a minor level game he tells both managers that the rule will not be in effect. His thought is that the 9-11yo kids are not going to be able to take advantage of an intentional ball drop and make the subsequent double play.
. :)

I can sum up all of the previous replies in a quick blunt manner.

Who gives a bleep what your friend thinks....he is wrong...he can't change the rule...and for goddness sakes...take an out when you can get one

My advice to you is to seek advice from fellow umps on this forum instead of that guy

[ORsouthpaw]

I'm definitely not taking his advice on it, I understand the rule as it was written. I just thought I'd post the question here to confirm what I already knew. I'm ok with him calling the game how he wants as long it's not my game that he officiating. The only issue is that I would hate to see him get caught up in a protest situation simply becasue he though he was doind the "right" thing.

[willv28]

I don't umpire many minor level games anymore. But what I always did was just have a very lax interpetation of "ordinary effort". Example, if a fielder has to go backwards to get to the ball, I usually will not call IF unless he has more than enough time to compensate. But for me, the amount of hang time on the ball is the most important or if it's hit right to someone.

In this area, it's important because for most players it's their first real experience, period. Also, often they don't have umpires for the games sometimes. You can tell because the coaches will be used to making calls and call someone safe or out for me then I have to correct them or tell them, I'm making the calls.

But, just refusing to call it is rediculus.

[dack]

I have been doing LL for about 20 yrs amongst other levels and I have found that most coaches and parents, let along players, understand the infield fly rule. The rule should always be enforced as it teaches everyone what the rule is and as they get older, there is no excuse for them not knowing the rule.

[heyblue26]

I have been doing LL for about 20 yrs amongst other levels and I have found that most coaches and parents, let along players, understand the infield fly rule. The rule should always be enforced as it teaches everyone what the rule is and as they get older, there is no excuse for them not knowing the rule.

I agree. If the coach understands the rules of the game and know how to apply them in his teachings then he can teach the kids the rules as well as the fundmetals (SP) of the game at the same time. IMO