reversed out call

[pujols54]

Yesterday a coach related the following situation that happened to him:

He had runners on 1B and 2B with one out. Low line drive hit to the right of F6, who dives for the ball. BU believes F6 cleanly catches the liner and yells "that's a catch" and signals the out. Unfortunately, the ball popped out of the glove of F6, unseen by BU. F6 picks up the ball and runs and steps on 3B and throws to 2B, as the runners returned to 1B and 2B (relying on the catch call made by BU). Defense coach appeals to PU that the line drive was not caught and he had a double play. PU agrees and overrules BU and grants the double play. I know what I would have done had I been PU. What do you guys think?

[widac]

It seems like the BU blew the call but that this is a situation that you can't go back and get right, you just have to eat it. I think the PU royally screwed the offense and also totally screwed his partner if he changed his partners call.

[chuktownblue]

Our association had a good discussion about this over the winter. There's a nice statement in the Fed book concerning an umpire's duties.... "Rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed either team at a disadvantage."

BU's errant decision that the line drive was caught (and reversed) clearly placed the offensive team at a disadvantage. If I was UIC and saw the play exactly how it was described, I would have had batter out and calmly explained the situation to the coach. The runners (in the OP) returned based solely on the BU's call. Teams shouldn't have to "just suffer" because of an umpires errant call, if it can be rectified.

[lhjjj]

In my opinion, the plate umpire should have offered his view of the play(in private conversation with the base ump) to the base ump ONLY after he was asked by the base ump. Then the base ump can decide if he thinks he should change his call.

[widac]

In my opinion, the plate umpire should have offered his view of the play(in private conversation with the base ump) to the base ump ONLY after he was asked by the base ump. Then the base ump can decide if he thinks he should change his call.You can't change this call. The BU's call of "OUT" told the runners to stay at their bases, you can't then change it to safe and penalize the offense for your mistake. You have to stay w/ the BR being out and play on.

[bobjenkins]

Our association had a good discussion about this over the winter. There's a nice statement in the Fed book concerning an umpire's duties.... "Rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed either team at a disadvantage."

And NCAA has "catch/no-catch with multiple runners" as an example of a call that can't be reversed (without creating more problems).

[dash_riprock]

No umpire can ever "overrule" his partner's call. The only time the UIC has any authority to change anything his partner did is when a rule has been misapplied. In that case, the UIC has the final say on the field.

[umpgent]

Guys - remember - this was the coach's rendition of what happened. Perhaps the BU met with the PU and changed the call and the coach interpreted that as the PU "overruling him."

I don't know of any decent umpire who truly believes he can overrule his partner's judgment call.

I once had a partner come to me for help when a collision at 1st Base dislodged the ball from F3's grasp. In my judgment, the out had been called, and sufficient time had passed, and the runner collided needlessly with F3. I had an out. I left it up to my partner.

He went and threw me under the bus by telling the coach that, "My partner changed the call." He was a senior ump to me, and knew that was not the case ... he was just a bit short on testes.

[chuktownblue]

He went and threw me under the bus by telling the coach that, "My partner changed the call." He was a senior ump to me, and knew that was not the case ... he was just a bit short on testes.

My first thought would be that he's got some big brass testes.

[RollerBowler]

I can relate to the scenario...just slightly different runners R1 & R3 , 0 out.

Line drive to F6 who gloves the ball on an extremely short hop. BU did not turn around fast enough to see the short hop and called the catch. R3 had returned from his lead off to the base to tag up, then proceeded to the plate as F6 tried for a double play by throwing to 1B (hearing the catch call by BU), then making a tag of R1. R1 took off immediately upon the hit.

After all appeals of tag-ups were made time was called. BU approached me to ask if I saw something else, to which I said yes...there was no catch. Partner rightly reversed the call of catch/out on the B/R. A brief discussion between my partner and I ensued...we allowed the run to score, called the double play (out of B/R at 1B, out of R1 on the tag off the base).

The key there was my partner reversed his decision...I only gave the observation and as we are allowed to make the situation as correct as possible, we did by allowing the run to score and the double play to be made. Both coaches were consulted and agreed that was the correct interpretation...game on.

[Fritz]

We've all probably been in a situation like this. Just last week I was BU with the bases loaded, 1 out. Batter chops a ball at his feet that F2 gloves in fair territory, steps on home and fires to 1B for the inning ending/rally-killing DP. Players start to run off the field while OC comes running on to yell that the ball was fouled off the batter's foot.

My partner shoos him away and calls me for a conference. Asks what I saw and I said that I saw the ball it by his foot, but from my distance couldn't really tell whether it hit him or the dirt, so that is why I didn't put my hands up and call foul. My partner says he thinks it hit the batter's foot but just brain cramped and didn't call anything. We agree to bring everyone back out and call it at foul ball.

So what do you think my good ol' pardner does? Calls the two coaches together and says he was blocked on the play but that I saw the ball hit the batter's foot so we have a foul ball. DC starts yelling at me that I can't make that call from my position and why didn't I throw my hands up in the first place and call it foul then? He was so upset, I was afraid I was going to have to toss him. Fortunately he used every bit of rope I gave him, but stopped just short of the breaking point and we were able to continue on.

Thanks partner...................you gutless wonder you.

[widac]

We've all probably been in a situation like this.I have not...at least not yet.

[chuktownblue]

So what do you think my good ol' pardner does? Calls the two coaches together and says he was blocked on the play but that I saw the ball hit the batter's foot so we have a foul ball.

Thanks partner...................you gutless wonder you.

If I'm close enough to hear my partner lie about what I told him, I'm close enough to correct him. That's one bullet I'm not biting. Pot.... meet kettle.

[torquer]

We've all probably been in a situation like this. Just last week I was BU with the bases loaded, 1 out. Batter chops a ball at his feet that F2 gloves in fair territory, steps on home and fires to 1B for the inning ending/rally-killing DP. Players start to run off the field while OC comes running on to yell that the ball was fouled off the batter's foot.

My partner shoos him away and calls me for a conference. Asks what I saw and I said that I saw the ball it by his foot, but from my distance couldn't really tell whether it hit him or the dirt, so that is why I didn't put my hands up and call foul. My partner says he thinks it hit the batter's foot but just brain cramped and didn't call anything. We agree to bring everyone back out and call it at foul ball.

So what do you think my good ol' pardner does? Calls the two coaches together and says he was blocked on the play but that I saw the ball hit the batter's foot so we have a foul ball. DC starts yelling at me that I can't make that call from my position and why didn't I throw my hands up in the first place and call it foul then? He was so upset, I was afraid I was going to have to toss him. Fortunately he used every bit of rope I gave him, but stopped just short of the breaking point and we were able to continue on.

Thanks partner...................you gutless wonder you.

I would probably call him Michelin man from now on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jess