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Bluefish
02-13-2009, 02:38 PM
Fed ball

2 outs, Runner on 2B. BR gets base hit. As R1 rounds third he is obstructed by F6. He gets in run down. As BR advances to 2B, F6 breaks off rundown and throws to F4 and gets BR out on tag. What do you do with R1? Does he get awarded home after the third out has been made? Rule reference?

nopachunts
02-13-2009, 04:15 PM
FED 8.3.2
Lead runner awarded home, BR trying to obtain 2B is third out.

Richard_Siegel
02-13-2009, 04:28 PM
Fed ball

2 outs, Runner on 2B. BR gets base hit. As R1 rounds third he is obstructed by F6. He gets in run down. As BR advances to 2B, F6 breaks off rundown and throws to F4 and gets BR out on tag. What do you do with R1? Does he get awarded home after the third out has been made? Rule reference?

I would say yes. The concept of the DDB for obstruction is to allow playing action to complete because the final result might be an even better benefit to the offense. For instance if the same situation as you just proposed happened, but instead of F4 tagging R1 out, F4 failed to catch the ball and it sailed into RF allowing R1 to come around and score, then that play will stand as is. However, when R1 was tagged and (I assume) R2 did not even cross HP (because of the OBS) yet we call call time and dail things back to the original time of the OBS violation and place runners as if we had called time at the moment.

If tyhis play happened in an OBR game it would be type A OBS (rule 7.06(a), which would be an immediate DB. We would call time, send R2 home and place R2 on 2B (assuming he has passed 1B at the time of the OBS). If F6 threw to F4 before we could get the time call out, it would be killed and no matter if R2 was tagged or the ball went wild, it would be a DB and R2 would be placed on 2B. That actually seems like a disadvantage to the offense because R1 could have gone farther.

That is why we have the DDB in FED. It allows the offense to do something better with the play. We have to "protect" the runners in our mind to the base we belive they would have reached had there been no OBS. If the ball got by F4 and R1 tried for 3B and was tagged out at 3B, that out would stand.

Willy
02-13-2009, 04:43 PM
If tyhis play happened in an OBR game it would be type A OBS (rule 7.06(a), which would be an immediate DB. We would call time, send R2 home and place R2 on 2B (assuming he has passed 1B at the time of the OBS). If F6 threw to F4 before we could get the time call out, it would be killed and no matter if R2 was tagged or the ball went wild, it would be a DB and R2 would be placed on 2B. That actually seems like a disadvantage to the offense because R1 could have gone farther.


If R1 has rounded first, and has not reached second, on Type A obs, it is not entirely correct that R1 automatically gets second. He can be put back on first. If R1 rounded first, but just stood there observing the play, I am putting him back to first when I kill the play. You can only award additional bases in order to remedy the act of obs. In fact, I would send R1 back to first regardless, unless he has aquired second at the time I kill it.

In the original OP. If R1 is thrown out at second prior to R2 scoring, I am still awarding R1 home on the obstruction award even though R1's out may have been the third out.

mazzamouth
03-01-2009, 06:43 AM
If R1 has rounded first, and has not reached second, on Type A obs, it is not entirely correct that R1 automatically gets second. He can be put back on first. If R1 rounded first, but just stood there observing the play, I am putting him back to first when I kill the play. You can only award additional bases in order to remedy the act of obs. In fact, I would send R1 back to first regardless, unless he has aquired second at the time I kill it.

In the original OP. If R1 is thrown out at second prior to R2 scoring, I am still awarding R1 home on the obstruction award even though R1's out may have been the third out.

Willy is correct here.. The NCAA covered this at this year meeting...

Matt13
03-01-2009, 06:04 PM
If R1 has rounded first, and has not reached second, on Type A obs, it is not entirely correct that R1 automatically gets second. He can be put back on first. If R1 rounded first, but just stood there observing the play, I am putting him back to first when I kill the play. You can only award additional bases in order to remedy the act of obs. In fact, I would send R1 back to first regardless, unless he has aquired second at the time I kill it.

Even if he would have acquired second without the obstruction on a preceding runner?

In the original OP. If R1 is thrown out at second prior to R2 scoring, I am still awarding R1 home on the obstruction award even though R1's out may have been the third out.

Now...what if that play at second wouldn't have happened but for the obstruction? For example:

A) R2 would have scored easily, and the throw would have been cut off, with R1 (actually BR) holding at first, or

B) There would have been a play at the plate, with R1 (again, actually BR) advancing to second on the throw home?

ETA: In situation A, I would have the out standing, akin to an obstructed runner attempting to advance to a base beyond that he would have achieved without the obstruction. I still have the question about situation B, though.