Scissors & Hand Fractures

[ExCop]

Scissors and other stances sometimes require the hands to rest on the forward knee facing the pitcher in the slot. As someone who has had hand fractures, I have very real concerns about this.

Any fracture to the hand is serious. The bones often need to be set and reset, surgery to put a pin in may be required, and bones can take over a month to mend. To top it off, fingers may no longer close properly and strength may never return to normal.

So why is it that no one seems to be concerned about this? I know guys who use this stance and like it, but know full well that a fouled or pitched ball directly back to a hand resting on a knee will result in one or more fractures. We all sweat over good CPs, and spend a ton of coin to protect collar bones, etc., yet leave our hands right out there to chance. Why?

Having been through hand fractures (no, not baseball related) I use a modified box stance with both hands resting behind my backside. (And yes, I'm careful to be sure it doesn't look like I'm trying to take a dump in the woods! :) )

[Ozzy]

I used the scissors for many years (still do when my back flares up) keeping my hands in the open. I have been hit on the hands but never had more than a black an blue. I think that it has a lot to do with keeping the hands very loose. When they are hit, they actually act like shock absorbers rather than solid objects. I am not saying that they didn't hurt but never a broken bone (from baseball, that is).

[Richard_Siegel]

There are three schools of thought on hand protection.

1) Let the fingers dangle loosely. This concept suggests that the ball hitting the fingers or the hand will just brush off the fingers and not cause any major injury to them since the fingers can move freely as the ball hits them. Like towels hanging on a clothesline.

2) Clench the hands into tight fists and hold them with fingers away from the pitch. This concept makes the hands more massive and the fingers are protected by the fact that they are all closed up and tightly packed. Like the ball hitting a rock.

(#1 and #2 seem contradictory, but I have been told to do them both by professional umpires at different clinics.)

3) Keep your hands in a place where they are not exposed to the pitch. This might be the best choice for amateur umpires who can’t rely on the skill of the catcher to protect them as well as a professional catcher might be able to do.

There is another part to this problem. It is not just the fingers and the hand that can be accidentally injured. We expose our entire forearms and elbows to the pitch when the hands are placed on the knees.

For many years I used the classic GD stance and I was occasionally nipped by a ball that brushed off my arm. Nothing ever major happened. Then in early 2006 I took a direct hit from a foul ball that tipped right into the radius bone about 3 inches above my left wrist. It was painful as the dickens and it hurt for days. Seven days after that shot I took another hard shot in exactly the same spot. I almost passed out. I was unable to use my left hand to type at work for a week and I could not even pull the driver's side car door shut for a few days.

I resolved then and there that I could no longer put by livelihood and my ability to earn a living in the hands of teenaged catchers. Although I have to admit that those two bad shots were foul balls that they could not have done anything about. I began to keep my hands on the side of my thighs. I grasp the side of my thigh that is behind the catcher, and I grasp the bottom of my thigh that is in the slot. This is how I lock in. I keep the elbows tucked close to my sides as well. Not only have I avoided any further bad hits to my forearms, but using this method had an additional benefit I did not anticipate.

All the drifting and flinching we do is a natural reflex instinct to avoid getting hit with the ball. Even though we mentally understand the catcher will usually not let the ball hit us, we often flinch nonetheless. I overcame much of my flinching reflex many years ago, but know that I still flinched a bit when the ball was headed for my arms. When I started to keep my arms out of harm's way, the flinching totally disappeared and I believe my strike zone has improved quite a bit because of it. Now I am never moving as the pitch comes in, no matter where it is headed.

[buckeyetc71]

I used to use standard GD but 4 seasons ago with a right handed batter, me in slot, I took a foul ball directly on the left hand, first knuckle. My hand was broken in three places. As ExCop pointed out surgery was required, pins inserted, cast put on a week after, etc. To this day I still don't have full range of motion in my left index finger.
This was a JV game and I would guess the pitcher was probably in the 70's so imagine the damage if it was 90's like D1.
I have since changed my stance to a modified GD, something similar to what Richard mentioned. In the slot my hand behind the catcher is on my knee which locks me in very well and the exposed arm is tucked in tight with my hand behind my thigh.
There is one funny thing about the whole situation....My partner didn't even know I was hurt...............After game was over we were changing and I said I think I broke my hand, he said "When did that happen?....I must have had a bad angle."

[lawump]

I have used the scissors since 2000, and I have yet to be hit on my hand.

I put my slot foot side (the foot that's forward) hand on the lower part of my thigh (above the knee). When I'm in the scissors, my leg guard on this leg, will come up about an inch above the level of my thigh. I put my hand right behind this "lip". I don't make a first; rather, I open my hand and place my palm in this position, with my fingers slightly spread. I've yet to come close to having my slot side hand (which is the hand more in harms way) hit by the ball.

The palm of my other hand ends up just below my hip, behind the ball bag.

[gregm]

I use the box and put my hands behind my back interlocking my two index fingers.

[LMan]

I use the box and put my hands behind my back interlocking my two index fingers.

You are kidding, right?

[BigUmp56]

I use the box and put my hands behind my back interlocking my two index fingers.

It's impossible to maintain a consistent head height if you're doing this. I'd strongly suggest you find a way to lock in.


Tim.

[gregm]

I do construction work for a living. Broken hand means no work. No work means no money. No money means I lose everything.

[bobjenkins]

I do construction work for a living. Broken hand means no work. No work means no money. No money means I lose everything.

All of us have to make choices, so I wouldn't tell someone NOT to do this. I will point out what it makes you look like and how it affects your umpiring. Depending on the level you do, and you goals for advancing, that may not matter.

[gregm]

My box is really kind of a half box and half sizzors, a midway point if you will. So I do not have the trying to take a poo look. If it did look that way, believe me, my wife would let me know. Plus I have been around other umpires who do high school and have not been criticized about my stance.
I do rec ball and an adult mexican league. In rec ball,and in any given age group, the heighth of the players vary a good bit. I always work the slot lined up on the inside corner. I set with my eyes at the top of the strike zone, this always varying depending on the player.
As for the quality of my umpiring, I think it is good for the experience that I have. Coaches like having me on their field and when I get to the park, I always have kids asking me if I am doing their game, when I tell them I am, I get the "alright!"
I may start doing some high school games next year. I was asked by a high school umpire that I work rec ball with this year to do so and I want to. However, my priorities may limit it greatly or make it impossible. My first priority is to watch my son's varsity games, secondly, rec ball as they are hurting for experienced umpires and I don't want to leave them hanging, and thirdly high school.
If and when I do high school, and they want me to change my stance, I will cross that bridge when I get there.

[BigUmp56]

I do construction work for a living. Broken hand means no work. No work means no money. No money means I lose everything.

I think most of us work with our hands in our professional lives. Still, there are a few different ways you can lock in better than you do while protecting your hands. Here's an image I found rather quickly of what's taught at Evans. Notice how one hand will be completely concealed behind the catcher if you're working the slot. The other hand can be slipped slightly around the side of your knee so a shot on it would just be a minor deflection.

http://www.umpireacademy.com/photos/1140578566.jpg


Tim.

[gregm]

I tried the link but it didn't work.

[BigUmp56]

I tried the link but it didn't work.

Are you not seeing the image I just put up? I was having a problem with the other one. Let me know, and I'll see if I can can fix it......


Tim.

[gregm]

The image didn't show up the first time but did after your next post. I assume that the stance shown is for a right handed batter. I do a lot of 9-10 and this stance would have my right arm pretty much in the kill zone. I tried this stance in my living room and it feels very unbalanced and makes moving on a passed ball slower than the stance I use. And looks wise, if these guys in the pic were all bulls, it would look like beef strokinoff.
Honesty I understand the concept of being locked in. I have asked umpires about getting hit on the arms or hands by a ball. The answer I get is that you relax them right before the ball gets there. That would be muscle movement right at the most critical point. I know that many umpires do this and are very succesful umpires, light years beyond me, and I am not knocking it. It really just does not make sense to me.

[BigUmp56]

I tried this stance in my living room and it feels very unbalanced and makes moving on a passed ball slower than the stance I use. And looks wise, if these guys in the pic were all bulls, it would look like beef strokinoff.


Well, I tried to help you, my friend. If you're not comfortable with the stance that's taught and mandated by the PBUC for new umpires in professional baseball, I don't know what else to tell you except good luck working those 9-10 year old games.


Tim.

[Ozzy]

I do a lot of 9-10 and this stance would have my right arm pretty much in the kill zone. I tried this stance in my living room and it feels very unbalanced and makes moving on a passed ball slower than the stance I use. And looks wise, if these guys in the pic were all bulls, it would look like beef strokinoff.......
May I suggest that you try a "raft" (balloon) chest protector. It would protect your hands so that your livelihood would not be affected. 9 & 10 year old catchers are horrible and I would not subject myself to that abuse. Oh by the way, it's Beef Stroganoff!

[gregm]

I sincerely appreciate the help you offered Tim, really. And I appreciate the time you took to do it. Honestly, sometimes I am just slow about coming around about some things. There are times I can be hardheaded and stubborn even when I don't want to be.
Sorry Oz. The beef strokinoff was a joke. Look at the pic again, then read that line. I admit, it is reaching a bit.

[Tim_C]

Some just refuse to listen.

You won't use the stand stance as use by all experienced umpires because you worry about hand injuries then under the "equipment" section below you ask about possibly purchasing a poorly constructed chest protector.

I think, in all honesty, you shuould consider giving up umpiring.

Regards,

[gregm]

Honestly, does every umpire on this forum use this exact stance? I knew nothing about the chest protector, which is why I asked about it.
I umpire because I love to be around kids, I love to umpire, and I love to be a part of the game instead of just spectating. Priority wise, pretty much in that order.
Our home park hosted the 9 year old DD state tournament. There were 4 of us that worked the majority of the tourn. A couple of them could't do all their sceduled games. The following is taken from our league's guestbook posted by Wills Park, the second place team.

To whom it may concern,

Just wanted to let the administration know how impressed we were at your handling of the 9-yr state tournament. The friendliness and welcoming spirit was appreciated. The ground crew was great and that made our boys feel special.
A special thanks goes out to your umpire crew. Our boys, parents and coaches alike still talk about your umpires. They actually acted like they enjoyed being there with our kids. The interaction they did with our boys on and off the field made them feel approachable, even with our parents was appreciated. Most act like they are above conversation. Some joked even thru criticism which was impressive. Again, thank you for a tremendous experience.

Wills Park


http://www.hometeamsonline.com/teams/default.asp?u=PLAYPCYB&t=c&s=baseball&p=guestbook

[archipelligo]

The best stance for umpiring 9 year olds is on 1 knee, with a glove on your left hand, so you can catch the pitch before it hits you, and hand it to the catcher, so he can throw it back to the pitcher.

[ExCop]

The best stance for umpiring 9 year olds is on 1 knee, with a glove on your left hand, so you can catch the pitch before it hits you, and hand it to the catcher, so he can throw it back to the pitcher.

In one Association down my way, RookieBall* umpires position themselves in foul territory just behind 1st and 3rd. The BU in A calls pitches on RHBs and the BU at 3rd calls LHBs. BU1 takes 1B, 2B and IFFs, and BU3 takes 3rd and Home, and fair/foul 3rd base side!

Here's the really, really scary part...it works!

*RookieBall is the one for 8-9 yos that uses a pitching machine and the batter gets 5 pitches. No ball/strike calls per se, just the occasional "No pitch" call when the machine sputters one out incorrectly. Foul ball calls are still on, but with aluminum bats you can hear those!

[PeteBooth]

There are three schools of thought on hand protection.

There is another part to this problem. It is not just the fingers and the hand that can be accidentally injured. We expose our entire forearms and elbows to the pitch when the hands are placed on the knees.

Richard although frowned upon today I often wonder why the "balloon" went away in favor of the inside chest protector.

No matter what kind of inside protector one gets it still does offer the maximum protection of the "old balloon"

Obvisoulsy your arms fingers etc. are not exposed when using the balloon.

It would be interesting to see how many umpire injuries there were when the umpires "back in the day" wore the balloon compared to the inside protector.

Pete Booth

[Cal Blue]

I sincerely appreciate the help you offered Tim, really. And I appreciate the time you took to do it. Honestly, sometimes I am just slow about coming around about some things. There are times I can be hardheaded and stubborn even when I don't want to be.
Sorry Oz. The beef strokinoff was a joke. Look at the pic again, then read that line. I admit, it is reaching a bit.

If you use a hyphen on joke words, nobody ever mistakes it for a misspelling: Beef strokin-off.

It works!

[Cal Blue]

Some just refuse to listen.

You won't use the stand stance as use by all experienced umpires because you worry about hand injuries then under the "equipment" section below you ask about possibly purchasing a poorly constructed chest protector.

I think, in all honesty, you shuould consider giving up umpiring.

Regards,

Greg, umpiring needs everyone willing to show this much interest in the game. Stay in umpiring. Kids need to play baseball and they can't play without umpires. Work games, study, improve, adjust, but keep umpiring. High school is cool, too. So are some of the American Legion and other summer leagues. Freshman and J.V. are enough and they need umps, too.

The game needs more umpires like you rather than more discriminating umpiring elitists.