Best/Worst Balls-and-Strikes Umpires

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

Who, in your opinion, are the best and worst balls-and-strikes umpires in MLB?

[ExCop]

The question presupposes that we are qualified to render a judgement. Perhaps some are.

I'm not.

[BrianC14]

The question presupposes that we are qualified to render a judgement. Perhaps some are.

I'm not.


+1

Mega dittoes to that

[Richard_Siegel]

Who, in your opinion, are the best and worst balls-and-strikes umpires in MLB?

One MLB umpire is the worst balls-and-strike umpire. He is at least 900 times better than me. So who am I to seek to try and identify him?

[Tim_C]

"He is at least 900 times better than me."

I am not sure that is possible. 900 times would make the "worst" guy perfect and you the worst umpire on the planet.

I would say many MLB umpires are head and shoulders above average umpires that work non-professional games.

The "real" difference in umpiring is how the "average" umpire would umpire in front of 50,000 people.

Regards,

[Richard_Siegel]

...and you the worst umpire on the planet....

One of the head coaches at the tournament game I umpired last night might actually have said that.

[TarheelUmp]

...and you the worst umpire on the planet....

One of the head coaches at the tournament game I umpired last night might actually have said that.

Darn, I thought I was special when he told me that....

[StLouBlue]

Who, in your opinion, are the best and worst balls-and-strikes umpires in MLB?

This article tries to be "scientific" about it. He thinks Joe West is the best.

I'm in no way vouching for his data or methodology, but it's an interesting concept.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/a-zone-of-their-own/

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

SHEESH! I'm just asking your opinion as a fan of the game and as someone who umpires. I ask because I value your, the umpires', opinion over a fan who doesn't umpire.

[mazzamouth]

SHEESH! I'm just asking your opinion as a fan of the game and as someone who umpires. I ask because I value your, the umpires', opinion over a fan who doesn't umpire.

you want us to come on here and tell you that we might think one guy or another is better at calling balls and strikes than the other?... this is a professional board, and in now way am I going to even begin to tell you that I think some umpire whom spent many of yrs training and learning the game, driving through some of the crappiest Milb stadiums around spending endless amounts of hours traveling on the road, that he might not call a good game.... as far as i can see all of those guys are great umpires and I would want to be just like everyone of them. Sorry for the long post... But I have some profesional Courtesy.

[BigUmp56]

Who, in your opinion, are the best and worst balls-and-strikes umpires in MLB?

These are the worst, and best ball/strike umpires in MLB :

No. Umpire
67 Lance Barksdale
65 Ted Barrett
35 Wally Bell
54 CB Bucknor
48 Mark Carlson
38 Gary Cederstrom
56 Eric Cooper
13 Derryl Cousins
2 Jerry Crawford
25 Fieldin Culbreth
10 Phil Cuzzi
44 Kerwin Danley
37 Gary Darling
61 Bob Davidson
12 Gerry Davis
32 Dana DeMuth
63 Laz Diaz
16 Mike DiMuro
1 Bruce Dreckman
88 Doug Eddings
50 Paul Emmel
57 Mike Everitt
49 Andy Fletcher
60 Marty Foster
53 Greg Gibson
9 Brian Gorman
20 Tom Hallion
55 Angel Hernandez
15 Ed Hickox
17 John Hirschbeck
29 Bill Hohn
34 Sam Holbrook
51 Marvin Hudson
58 Dan Iassogna

No. Umpire
66 Jim Joyce
8 Jeff Kellogg
46 Ron Kulpa
24 Jerry Layne
72 Alfonso Marquez
30 Randy Marsh
36 Tim McClelland
41 Jerry Meals
14 Chuck Meriwether
26 Bill Miller
11 Ed Montague
96 Paul Nauert
45 Jeff Nelson
7 Brian O'Nora
39 Larry Poncino
59 Tony Randazzo
19 Ed Rapuano
23 Rick Reed
31 Mike Reilly
18 Charlie Reliford
77 Jim Reynolds
71 Brian Runge
43 Paul Schrieber
5 Dale Scott
95 Tim Timmons
4 Tim Tschida
27 Larry Vanover
47 Mark Wegner
52 Bill Welke
3 Tim Welke
21 Hunter Wendelstedt
22 Joe West
33 Mike Winters
78 Jim Wolf

Tim.

[Ozzy]

SHEESH! I'm just asking your opinion as a fan of the game and as someone who umpires. I ask because I value your, the umpires', opinion over a fan who doesn't umpire.
Easy BKU! I'm sure that one of the first things you were taught is not to stab your fellow umpires in the back (if not, you have just been taught). The MLB guys read these forums but are not allowed to post to them (MLB rules). Now, seeing as they are not allowed to defend themselves on the forum, it would be in bad taste to "rate" them here. It's kind of like your fellow association members bad mouthing you and you are under a gag order and not allowed to respond.

In other words, it was a very irresponsible question on your part.

[ExCop]

...and you the worst umpire on the planet....

One of the head coaches at the tournament game I umpired last night might actually have said that.

Darn, I thought I was special when he told me that....

Hey, no fair! I know a coach who once told me I was the worst umpire EVER!

Hear that? "EVER"!

Are you guys seriously claiming that you have been told that too?!? :wink:

[JBowling]

...and you the worst umpire on the planet....

One of the head coaches at the tournament game I umpired last night might actually have said that.

Darn, I thought I was special when he told me that....

Hey, no fair! I know a coach who once told me I was the worst umpire EVER!

Hear that? "EVER"!

Are you guys seriously claiming that you have been told that too?!? :wink:

I had a coach tell me once that a pitch couldn't have been a strike because I called it on "the best hitter in the state."

I had to chuckle because I live in a state with 2 MLB teams. I'm sure their hitters are a little bit better.

[Tim_C]

"I had a coach tell me once that a pitch couldn't have been a strike because I called it on "the best hitter in the state.""

I was umpiring a Connie Mack Regional Tournament is Seattle.

This kid comes up and I call him out on strikes.

His second time up same thing.

He spins towards me and says: "Do you KNOW WHO I AM?"

My answer: "Yeah, a kid that just got called out for a second time on pitches down the middle."

I admit it -- I laughed as I walked away.

Regards,

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

SHEESH! I'm just asking your opinion as a fan of the game and as someone who umpires. I ask because I value your, the umpires', opinion over a fan who doesn't umpire.

you want us to come on here and tell you that we might think one guy or another is better at calling balls and strikes than the other?... this is a professional board, and in now way am I going to even begin to tell you that I think some umpire whom spent many of yrs training and learning the game, driving through some of the crappiest Milb stadiums around spending endless amounts of hours traveling on the road, that he might not call a good game.... as far as i can see all of those guys are great umpires and I would want to be just like everyone of them. Sorry for the long post... But I have some profesional Courtesy.

You're saying I don't have professional courtesy? I respect each umpire in the major and minor leagues. They have a very difficult job, and I envy them every time I go to a game. They have, what many, if not all of us, would describe as a "dream job." That being said, having an opinion is not being unprofessional. I'm not asking you to rip into one of these guys. I'm asking: who has some qualities you emulate? Who has some qualities you'd rather not integrate into your game?

Those of you who misunderstood me, I apologize, but to those of you who returned with sarcasim: I hope you don't umpire with that same attitude.

[Tim_C]

Another Newbie telling us how to umpire -- how quaint.

Regards,

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

Another Newbie telling us how to umpire -- how quaint.

Regards,

My point exactly.

[BrianC14]

"I had a coach tell me once that a pitch couldn't have been a strike because I called it on "the best hitter in the state.""

I was umpiring a Connie Mack Regional Tournament is Seattle.

This kid comes up and I call him out on strikes.

His second time up same thing.

He spins towards me and says: "Do you KNOW WHO I AM?"

My answer: "Yeah, a kid that just got called out for a second time on pitches down the middle."

I admit it -- I laughed as I walked away.

Regards,

8O :lol: :lol: :lol:

Coffee-spray cleanup time!

Another good answer might have been:

"No, but I know what you are."

[StLouBlue]

"I had a coach tell me once that a pitch couldn't have been a strike because I called it on "the best hitter in the state.""

I was umpiring a Connie Mack Regional Tournament is Seattle.

This kid comes up and I call him out on strikes.

His second time up same thing.

He spins towards me and says: "Do you KNOW WHO I AM?"

My answer: "Yeah, a kid that just got called out for a second time on pitches down the middle."

I admit it -- I laughed as I walked away.

Regards,

I'm curious if you DID know who he was? In other words, was he some hot shot player that gets written about in the papers a lot? Was he the son of some prominent person in the community? Why did he think he deserved special treatment?

[KenGibes]

Who, in your opinion, are the best and worst balls-and-strikes umpires in MLB?


BKU -

You may not have intended to do so, but you asked a forum of umpires to call-out who they think are the worst umpires in MLB. You're not going to get far with a request like that on this forum.

A better question would have been, "What MLB umpires do you think call the best plate, and what about their mechanics do you think contributes to their proficiency at calling balls and strikes?"

It's a matter of semantics, for sure. Hopefully you will see the difference in the two questions and realize why you got the responses that you did.

Ken

[mazzamouth]

Another Newbie telling us how to umpire -- how quaint.

Regards,

My point exactly.

your point...... your point was to come on here and aask us to who was at calling balls and strikes right?.. Just like Ozzy said I aint going to to tell you that... all of those guys are good.

[mazzamouth]

Another Newbie telling us how to umpire -- how quaint.

Regards,


I sure hope you ain't calling me a newbie?...

[mazzamouth]

SHEESH! I'm just asking your opinion as a fan of the game and as someone who umpires. I ask because I value your, the umpires', opinion over a fan who doesn't umpire.
Easy BKU! I'm sure that one of the first things you were taught is not to stab your fellow umpires in the back (if not, you have just been taught). The MLB guys read these forums but are not allowed to post to them (MLB rules). Now, seeing as they are not allowed to defend themselves on the forum, it would be in bad taste to "rate" them here. It's kind of like your fellow association members bad mouthing you and you are under a gag order and not allowed to respond.

In other words, it was a very irresponsible question on your part.

Thanks Ozzy this was all I was trying to say. Not to sure if he is still getting it.

[BrianC14]

....

You're saying I don't have professional courtesy? I respect each umpire in the major and minor leagues. They have a very difficult job, and I envy them every time I go to a game. They have, what many, if not all of us, would describe as a "dream job." That being said, having an opinion is not being unprofessional. I'm not asking you to rip into one of these guys. I'm asking: who has some qualities you emulate? Who has some qualities you'd rather not integrate into your game?

Those of you who misunderstood me, I apologize, but to those of you who returned with sarcasim: I hope you don't umpire with that same attitude.

That's not at all what you asked in your original post. The question you're asking now (in bold, above) is entirely different.

[Tim_C]

mazz wrote:

I sure hope you ain't calling me a newbie?...

Of course not . . . you have a well developed history here.

STLouBlue wrote:

"I'm curious if you DID know who he was?"

After the fact my research showed that he was the highest drafted player in Washington that year.

As a sidebar: He was ejected from the next game for arguing balls/strikes.


BklynKiwanisUmpire wrote:

My point exactly.

And as the person that penned the original idiot post you should get everything that you got.

Obviously you're a poorly trained, lower level umpire that has no clue how to conduct themselves on a umpire based message board.

Regards,

[umpjmb]

DAMN, TIM!!! Quit holding back!?!?! Tell us how you really feel!

[LMan]

Another Newbie telling us how to umpire -- how quaint.

Regards,

My point exactly.

Im glad you agree with Tee, because he's absolutely correct.

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

Who, in your opinion, are the best and worst balls-and-strikes umpires in MLB?


BKU -

You may not have intended to do so, but you asked a forum of umpires to call-out who they think are the worst umpires in MLB. You're not going to get far with a request like that on this forum.

A better question would have been, "What MLB umpires do you think call the best plate, and what about their mechanics do you think contributes to their proficiency at calling balls and strikes?"

It's a matter of semantics, for sure. Hopefully you will see the difference in the two questions and realize why you got the responses that you did.

Ken

Ken:

Thank you for understanding where I was coming from. I once again apologize to those whom I may have offended. This forum is truly an asset to any umpire, "newbie," verteran, or otherwise. That being said, Ken, rather than tearing me apart with sarcasim for a misunderstood question, you undertood where I was coming from and took the high road.
Thanks.

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

mazz wrote:

I sure hope you ain't calling me a newbie?...

Of course not . . . you have a well developed history here.

STLouBlue wrote:

"I'm curious if you DID know who he was?"

After the fact my research showed that he was the highest drafted player in Washington that year.

As a sidebar: He was ejected from the next game for arguing balls/strikes.


BklynKiwanisUmpire wrote:

My point exactly.

And as the person that penned the original idiot post you should get everything that you got.

Obviously you're a poorly trained, lower level umpire that has no clue how to conduct themselves on a umpire based message board.

Regards,

Calling me an idiot -- very professional. Some guys here have lots of class and look to help each other out. Your sarcasim is not necessary. If a coach called you an idiot, how would you react? Treat others as you would like to be treated. I came on the board with a legitimate question, that I misworded and have since clarified. You attacked me calling me a unprofessional, a newbie, and an idiot.

HoosierBlue wrote these guidelines for dealing with coaches. Perhaps you should heed some of his suggestions:
Common advice on handling coaches:
~ Don't threaten.
~ Don't yell.
~ Don't get sarcastic.
~ Be firm.
~ Be calm.
~ Be businesslike during any kind of confrontation.
~ Don't do or say anything to coaches/players that you would not tolerate from them.

[Matt13]

mazz wrote:

I sure hope you ain't calling me a newbie?...

Of course not . . . you have a well developed history here.

STLouBlue wrote:

"I'm curious if you DID know who he was?"

After the fact my research showed that he was the highest drafted player in Washington that year.

As a sidebar: He was ejected from the next game for arguing balls/strikes.


BklynKiwanisUmpire wrote:

My point exactly.

And as the person that penned the original idiot post you should get everything that you got.

Obviously you're a poorly trained, lower level umpire that has no clue how to conduct themselves on a umpire based message board.

Regards,

Calling me an idiot -- very professional. Some guys here have lots of class and look to help each other out. Your sarcasim is not necessary. If a coach called you an idiot, how would you react? Treat others as you would like to be treated. I came on the board with a legitimate question, that I misworded and have since clarified. You attacked me calling me a unprofessional, a newbie, and an idiot.

He called you a newbie (which you are.) He didn't call you unprofessional, but poorly-trained and lower level (which, given your posts, you are.) He also didn't call you an idiot, but that your post was (which it was.)

Since you want everyone to treat others how they would like to be treated, we should take your OP and make it happen. Your next 140 games will be televised nationally for all to critique. After all, since you asked the question, you wouldn't mind.

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

Matt:

Who cares if he called me or my post idiotic. It's insulting nonetheless. What do my posts have to do with how well I have been trained? I've insulted no one, nor have a misquoted a rule, or given someone incorrect umpiring advise.

[Tim_C]

Matt:

Thanks tons for helping point out (what we consider) the obvious to our new member.

Regards,

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

Reply to me Tim. I made a point that you're ignoring. Admit your posts are classes and mine, while misunderstood, meant no harm.

[Matt13]

Matt:

Who cares if he called me or my post idiotic. It's insulting nonetheless. What do my posts have to do with how well I have been trained? I've insulted no one, nor have a misquoted a rule, or given someone incorrect umpiring advise.

Your posts indicate a great deal about your ability to gauge the interpersonal context in which you find yourself. It is your inappropriate responses to that context that leads one to believe that you are at the lower end of the umpiring ladder.

Rules are easy. If rules were all one needed to know about umpiring, there wouldn't need to be schooling and many years of experience to become an MLB umpire--all that would be needed is a study guide and an ability to memorize. So when you say that you haven't misquoted a rule, so what?

The part of umpiring that makes it a skilled profession is the ability to engage in proper game control and management. It requires an ability to understand not only the black-and-white of any decision that needs to be made, but the grey influences that surround it. By acting in a manner that indicates that you don't have the ability to understand and relate to the social network (by this, I don't mean cliques) that exists on this board among people in your chosen avocation, how can one reasonably assume that you have the ability to appropriately manage situations in real-life, on the field, with persons that, by default, have an adversarial position to yours?

I'm not saying this to insult or demean. I'm saying this so that hopefully, you realize where your shortcomings are. Even though you say you meant no harm (and I'll take that at face value,) the perception is that you are attempting to do so. It is no different than a lot of bad things umpires do:

In a one-man plate conference: "I'm out here by myself, so I might miss some." (Perception: This guy's looking for excuses.)

Giving a relief pitcher the situation. (Perception: Why the f*** is he talking to him? He's f***ing up his rhythm.)

Tracking?

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

Matt:

Who cares if he called me or my post idiotic. It's insulting nonetheless. What do my posts have to do with how well I have been trained? I've insulted no one, nor have a misquoted a rule, or given someone incorrect umpiring advise.

Your posts indicate a great deal about your ability to gauge the interpersonal context in which you find yourself. It is your inappropriate responses to that context that leads one to believe that you are at the lower end of the umpiring ladder.

Rules are easy. If rules were all one needed to know about umpiring, there wouldn't need to be schooling and many years of experience to become an MLB umpire--all that would be needed is a study guide and an ability to memorize. So when you say that you haven't misquoted a rule, so what?

The part of umpiring that makes it a skilled profession is the ability to engage in proper game control and management. It requires an ability to understand not only the black-and-white of any decision that needs to be made, but the grey influences that surround it. By acting in a manner that indicates that you don't have the ability to understand and relate to the social network (by this, I don't mean cliques) that exists on this board among people in your chosen avocation, how can one reasonably assume that you have the ability to appropriately manage situations in real-life, on the field, with persons that, by default, have an adversarial position to yours?

What do you mean by inappropriate comments?

[Matt13]

Matt:

Who cares if he called me or my post idiotic. It's insulting nonetheless. What do my posts have to do with how well I have been trained? I've insulted no one, nor have a misquoted a rule, or given someone incorrect umpiring advise.

Your posts indicate a great deal about your ability to gauge the interpersonal context in which you find yourself. It is your inappropriate responses to that context that leads one to believe that you are at the lower end of the umpiring ladder.

Rules are easy. If rules were all one needed to know about umpiring, there wouldn't need to be schooling and many years of experience to become an MLB umpire--all that would be needed is a study guide and an ability to memorize. So when you say that you haven't misquoted a rule, so what?

The part of umpiring that makes it a skilled profession is the ability to engage in proper game control and management. It requires an ability to understand not only the black-and-white of any decision that needs to be made, but the grey influences that surround it. By acting in a manner that indicates that you don't have the ability to understand and relate to the social network (by this, I don't mean cliques) that exists on this board among people in your chosen avocation, how can one reasonably assume that you have the ability to appropriately manage situations in real-life, on the field, with persons that, by default, have an adversarial position to yours?

What do you mean by inappropriate comments?

You replied before I put my edit in--I didn't say comments, I said responses (think of it in behavioral terms--your OP was still a response to some stimulus.)

[Tim_C]

"Reply to me Tim. I made a point that you're ignoring. Admit your posts are classes and mine, while misunderstood, meant no harm."

First, don't TELL me to do anything. I post only when I select not to satisfy some new poster.

Second, your post (see above) dose not even make sense.

Last, I will stand by my original post. You are a newbie, inexperienced as an umpire and have no clue as to what is appropriate to post on an umpire website.

You have done as many before you . . . you made an idiot worded post (BTW, most of us with any type of posting history have done the exact same thing) then tried, in vain, to turn the arguement on other folks.

Read all the posts in this thread and then tell me I am out of bounds (or at least in DBT).

Regards,

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

What did I do to you? I ask you to make a couple of comments about major league umpires. You could have done what others did and told me my wording was faulty. Instead, you choose to attack me.

Tim, I found one of your other posts in which you state:

My god, Brian . . .

Please give me the names (via PM) of these D1 idiots.

I want to ask them "when did the 'corners' move"?

Regards,

First off, again using the term idiot. Tisk! Tisk!

Second, you call to professionals, one a former MLB umpire, idiots, hardly the character of somone who berates me for "idiot posts." I didn't call anyone an idiot, yet you call two professionals idiots. You sound like a poorly trained umpire, calling two of your brethren idiots. Who can dispute that?

Regards,

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

Matt --

I understand where you are coming from. I, believe it or not, mean no harm and just wanted to start up an interesting discussion about the big leagues. I was misunderstood, and that upset others. Hopefully, we can move beyond this. Thanks.

[Ozzy]

What did I do to you? I ask you to make a couple of comments about major league umpires. You could have done what others did and told me my wording was faulty. Instead, you choose to attack me.

Tim, I found one of your other posts in which you state:

My god, Brian . . .

Please give me the names (via PM) of these D1 idiots.

I want to ask them "when did the 'corners' move"?

Regards,

First off, again using the term idiot. Tisk! Tisk!

Second, you call to professionals, one a former MLB umpire, idiots, hardly the character of somone who berates me for "idiot posts." I didn't call anyone an idiot, yet you call two professionals idiots. You sound like a poorly trained umpire, calling two of your brethren idiots. Who can dispute that?

Regards,
You know what BKU? You (unknowingly due to lack of experience) have dug yourself into a hole that most coaches do. You are not seeing the forest for the trees and you are quickly loosing credibility here. Your best bet is to look and see how many veterans posted to refuse to answer and/or repute your original post. That would be an indication to you that the request was not in good taste.

On another note, arguing with Tim C. will get you nowhere! You must understand that you are now the "coach" and Tim is the PU. You can stat your case but the call will not change. Live with it! No one gets a break (except in the Newbie forum) here. You are treated like an umpire. If you screw up, you will be admonished. If you "grow a backbone", you will survive here. We all did it. Those that couldn't have moved on.

We do not coddle, pander to anyone - we tell you like it is. Why? Because it keeps everyone on their toes and reminds us "if you dish it out, you have to be able to take it, too". If you want to be coddled of kissed on the head and told "it's okay", I suggest you find a mommy-type-person to do this for you as we will not.

The rest is up to you.

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

Ozzy,

The fact that I didn't leave the forum after being bashed by Tim proves that I can "both take it and dish it out." Secondly, I think we are well beyond the initial post issue here. My umpirng credibility was being questioned because of a question I asked. If you read the posts I've posted before, I have bashed no one. I asked a question, that was, perhaps, in poor taste, yet when I "dished" it out, I was told I was a poor umpire because of my communication skills. I don't look to be coddled, nor do I want the "mommy-type" person you refer to. I want to speak to umpires about umpiring. It's that simple, yet my posts are called idiotic by someone who refers to professionals as idiotic. If Tim, the plate umpire as you metaphorically refer to him as, can't give professionals respect, why should I, the coach, expect it? I can both "dish it and take it" but I do so with respect a quality I expected umpires should have.

[TejasSlim]

Ozzy,

The fact that I didn't leave the forum after being bashed by Tim proves that I can "both take it and dish it out." Secondly, I think we are well beyond the initial post issue here. My umpirng credibility was being questioned because of a question I asked. If you read the posts I've posted before, I have bashed no one. I asked a question, that was, perhaps, in poor taste, yet when I "dished" it out, I was told I was a poor umpire because of my communication skills. I don't look to be coddled, nor do I want the "mommy-type" person you refer to. I want to speak to umpires about umpiring. It's that simple, yet my posts are called idiotic by someone who refers to professionals as idiotic. If Tim, the plate umpire as you metaphorically refer to him as, can't give professionals respect, why should I, the coach, expect it? I can both "dish it and take it" but I do so with respect a quality I expected umpires should have.

Time to tuck your tail and give it a rest. You struck a nerve that cannot be fixed.

Respectfully yours,



Tejas Slim

[ExCop]

You know what BKU? You (unknowingly due to lack of experience) have dug yourself into a hole that most coaches do. You are not seeing the forest for the trees and you are quickly loosing credibility here. Your best bet is to look and see how many veterans posted to refuse to answer and/or repute your original post. That would be an indication to you that the request was not in good taste.

On another note, arguing with Tim C. will get you nowhere! You must understand that you are now the "coach" and Tim is the PU. You can stat your case but the call will not change. Live with it! No one gets a break (except in the Newbie forum) here. You are treated like an umpire. If you screw up, you will be admonished. If you "grow a backbone", you will survive here. We all did it. Those that couldn't have moved on.

We do not coddle, pander to anyone - we tell you like it is. Why? Because it keeps everyone on their toes and reminds us "if you dish it out, you have to be able to take it, too". If you want to be coddled of kissed on the head and told "it's okay", I suggest you find a mommy-type-person to do this for you as we will not.

The rest is up to you.

The only part of Ozzy's discourse with which I disagree is the inference that seeking credibility with us is a goal. It shouldn't be. In fact, the surest way to lose credibility is to try to get it artificially. Don't get all p*ssy about it, but post the real you. If you have a firmly entrenched belief about umpiring, argue your point and go head to head with Tim C or anybody else.

The recent strike zone thread, for example, did an excellent job of pitting the "It's where it crosses the plate and I don't give a damn where it ends up or what the catcher did with it" crowd vs. the "It's a complex mix of pitch location, catcher reaction and expectations" crowd. In that case, I have moved from the former to the latter crowd, so I can look back and see both positions in terms of my own personal growth. I have taken positions here - very firm ones I might add - that I wouldn't agree with today. But I never regretted arguing them when I held those views! And if you're unsure about a call you made or how you handled a situation, don't be afraid to post about it. If you screwed up, you'll get woodshedded by some, coached by others, etc. But don't pretend you're super ump. Heck, even Richard shares his "oopsies"!

What anyone here thinks about you is only as important as you decide it is. And it's OK (indeed, often advisable) not to give a hoot what we think.

As for your original post, it struck me (frankly) as a good old fashion troll post. Right up there with "Thank goodness instant replay will be coming to MLB soon; foul balls are just too hard to call for most umpires" and "Head coaches are simply too important to the game and umpires should not be allowed to eject them, don't you agree?" :wink:

Anyway, I don't think it's a troll post anymore. It just goes to show you that we can all be wrong about stuff.

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

You know what BKU? You (unknowingly due to lack of experience) have dug yourself into a hole that most coaches do. You are not seeing the forest for the trees and you are quickly loosing credibility here. Your best bet is to look and see how many veterans posted to refuse to answer and/or repute your original post. That would be an indication to you that the request was not in good taste.

On another note, arguing with Tim C. will get you nowhere! You must understand that you are now the "coach" and Tim is the PU. You can stat your case but the call will not change. Live with it! No one gets a break (except in the Newbie forum) here. You are treated like an umpire. If you screw up, you will be admonished. If you "grow a backbone", you will survive here. We all did it. Those that couldn't have moved on.

We do not coddle, pander to anyone - we tell you like it is. Why? Because it keeps everyone on their toes and reminds us "if you dish it out, you have to be able to take it, too". If you want to be coddled of kissed on the head and told "it's okay", I suggest you find a mommy-type-person to do this for you as we will not.

The rest is up to you.

The only part of Ozzy's discourse with which I disagree is the inference that seeking credibility with us is a goal. It shouldn't be. In fact, the surest way to lose credibility is to try to get it artificially. Don't get all p*ssy about it, but post the real you. If you have a firmly entrenched belief about umpiring, argue your point and go head to head with Tim C or anybody else.

The recent strike zone thread, for example, did an excellent job of pitting the "It's where it crosses the plate and I don't give a damn where it ends up or what the catcher did with it" crowd vs. the "It's a complex mix of pitch location, catcher reaction and expectations" crowd. In that case, I have moved from the former to the latter crowd, so I can look back and see both positions in terms of my own personal growth. I have taken positions here - very firm ones I might add - that I wouldn't agree with today. But I never regretted arguing them when I held those views! And if you're unsure about a call you made or how you handled a situation, don't be afraid to post about it. If you screwed up, you'll get woodshedded by some, coached by others, etc. But don't pretend you're super ump. Heck, even Richard shares his "oopsies"!

What anyone here thinks about you is only as important as you decide it is. And it's OK (indeed, often advisable) not to give a hoot what we think.

As for your original post, it struck me (frankly) as a good old fashion troll post. Right up there with "Thank goodness instant replay will be coming to MLB soon; foul balls are just too hard to call for most umpires" and "Head coaches are simply too important to the game and umpires should not be allowed to eject them, don't you agree?" :wink:

Anyway, I don't think it's a troll post anymore. It just goes to show you that we can all be wrong about stuff.

ExCop:

I agree with you. In no way do I think I am super ump and I have, and will continue to, post some mistakes I've made out on the field. What bothers me is that others on this board chose to attack me for a simple question, and when I call them out on it, refuse to reply to me because "the call has been made."

[ExCop]

What bothers me is that others on this board chose to attack me for a simple question...."

Stop being bothered.

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

What bothers me is that others on this board chose to attack me for a simple question...."

Stop being bothered.

Why? I'd rather resolve the issue with Tim than just walk away from it. He accuses me of disrespecting umpires, when he called two professionals idiots. I'll wait for a reply.

[Tim_C]

" I'll wait for a reply."

It will be a long wait . . . I don't wrestle with pigs.

Regards,

[JBowling]

BKU,

I have had a run-in on posts with Tim_C in the past as well. However, we have worked out our differences. Although, I don't agree with Tim a lot, I do see his point of view on posts. Sure he can come across as abrasive and it can be taken personal. However, Tim, I gather, through his posts as been at this avocation for a while and has been through the fire many times. He does not seek to sugar-coat anything.

The question that you asked, however harmless as it was intended was a no-no. It was reminded me of the reason I sit in the press box or far away from fans when I am out evaluating umpires. It was the kind of question that a parent, who knows you're an umpire, asks in the middle of a game. Let me give you the dialogue of the situation:

Parent A: Do you think that the umpire got that call right? Was Jimmy really out on that? Was that pitch a strike?

Good Umpire responses: I didn't make the call, so I'm not going to comment on it; OR No Comment; OR in all cases, YES

Bad Umpire response would be to tell the parent what you actually thought about the call and explain any error in timing, mechangics, position as to why the call was made.

That is pretty much was the question in the OP asked. So, like the questions above, it was kind of a stupid question to ask other umpires because a good umpire isn't going to stab another umpire in the back.

Just my thoughts on this whole thread.

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

I have had a run-in on posts with Tim_C in the past as well. However, we have worked out our differences.

I'm more than willing.

[LMan]

What bothers me is that others on this board chose to attack me for a simple question...."

Stop being bothered.

Why? I'd rather resolve the issue with Tim than just walk away from it. He accuses me of disrespecting umpires, when he called two professionals idiots. I'll wait for a reply.


Heh. In the real world, you'll either:

a. get over it
b. die with it on your mind.

[LMan]

I have had a run-in on posts with Tim_C in the past as well. However, we have worked out our differences.

I'm more than willing.


Put simply, you aren't worth his effort....yet. Post with some common sense and maybe it will change. Maybe it won't.

"It don't mean that much to him, that he means that much to you." :lol:

[BklynKiwanisUmpire]

"Post with some common sense." Why the need for such an insulting remark? Many others on the board have seen my point, so I doubt I've been lacking sense.

Why am I not worth his effort? If anything, he's not worth my effort, calling me idiotic, a poor umpire, and a pig. Why doesn't Tim get off of his high horse admit he too made a mistake in inuslting me and in being a hypocrite?

[BigUmp56]

"Post with some common sense." Why the need for such an insulting remark? Many others on the board have seen my point, so I doubt I've been lacking sense.

Why am I not worth his effort? If anything, he's not worth my effort, calling me idiotic, a poor umpire, and a pig. Why doesn't Tim get off of his high horse admit he too made a mistake in inuslting me and in being a hypocrite?

You're not worth his effort...........

He's not worth your effort...........

You're not worth his effort...........

He's not worth your effort...........

You're not worth his effort...........

He's not worth your effort...........


Do you see a pattern developing?

I think it's best to let this die for now, and resume it another day over something more significant.

Tim.