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gilbert924
07-22-2008, 07:28 PM
I'm BU. Bases empty, Batter hits the ball out to right field. While rounding 1B, BR gets makes contact with F3. At this time, I point out the to show that I saw the contact, BR takes 2-3 steps and then turns back to 1b as ball is being trown into 2B. I leave the BR at 1B. OC comes out and asks why BR didnt get 2B. I explained that in my judgment the BR did not make an attempt at 2B, so I was leaving him at 1B.


He accepted my explaination, but after some thought, should he have gotten 2B or is this a HTBT sitch?

Richard_Siegel
07-22-2008, 07:50 PM
My "enforcement" of this kind of obstruction is not universally accepted. To the letter of the rule, it might be wrong. But I think it is fair and makes sense. The rules tell us that when there is obstruction with no play, as is the case in the OP, we wait until the play is over and award the runner the base he would have gotten had there been no obstruction. The rules require that we put the runner on the base where we believe he would have reached.

If the runner stopped but you felt he would have probably made it to 2B had the OBS not occurred, you should have given him 2B. You don't have to feel he would have definitely made it to 2B, probably is good enough. However, if the ball was hit sharply to F9 and you felt there was no possible way (outside of an error) that the BR would have made it to 2B, leave him on 1B. That is probably why he stopped. If the BR was tagged out going back to 1B, give him 2B.

The rules say that we should award the runner one base beyond the last base he last legally touched. But in the case where you felt there was no possible way that the BR would have made it to 2B, it doesn't make sense to give him 2B. Some will say we must give the BR 2B regardless if we you felt there was no possible way that the BR would have made it to 2B or not. I can not argue with that since the rules might support this.

07-22-2008, 07:51 PM
on type b obstruction you send him where you think he would have gone had there been no obstruction. if your decision to keep him at first base is on par with the previous statement, then you did just fine.

07-22-2008, 07:52 PM
The rules say that we should award the runner one base beyond the last base he last legally touched.

please fix it.

Richard_Siegel
07-22-2008, 07:55 PM
The rules say that we should award the runner one base beyond the last base he last legally touched.

please fix it.

7.06 When obstruction occurs, the umpire shall call or signal "Obstruction."
(a) If a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or if the batter runner is obstructed before he touches first base, the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire's judgment, if there had been no obstruction. The obstructed runner shall be awarded at least one base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction.....

But this is type A obstruction, and the OP is type B obstruction.

KenGibes
07-22-2008, 07:56 PM
Gilbert,

From your explanation, this was type B obstruction, meaning that the obstruction happened on a runner who didn't have a play being made on him at the time (the ball was in somewhere in right field, right?)

In this case, you call out the obstruction (as you did) and let the play continue (as you did.) At the end of the play, you have to decide how far the runner would have advanced if the obstruction didn't happen.

Most umpires are very liberal when determining how far the runner would have advanced. In your case, if the runner has continued to second and been thrown out by a step or two, most umpires would award the base. It's purely a judgment call on the umpire when determining whether the obstruction results in an award or not. The judgment is based mainly on how badly the runner was obstructed. You have to admit that a runner being knocked down would result in a bigger award than a runner who was forced into a wide turn because F3 was standing on the inside half of the base.

So, back to your scenario... if this was merely a routine hit to right field and, in your judgment, the runner had no chance of safely advancing even if he hadn't been obstructed, then there would be no award.

Type A obstruction is different.

Ken

Richard_Siegel
07-22-2008, 08:00 PM
The rules say that we should award the runner one base beyond the last base he last legally touched.

please fix it.

Tell me what to fix and I will do it. ???

07-22-2008, 08:07 PM
The rules say that we should award the runner one base beyond the last base he last legally touched.

please fix it.

But this is type A obstruction, and the OP is type B obstruction.

the last paragraph in your OP gave the rule for type a when the situation was type b. you fixed it when you added the type a disclaimer in your second post, but your OP is still confusing.

Richard_Siegel
07-22-2008, 08:13 PM
Sorry for the confusion. I will fix it tonight. Got a game to go to now! bye!

bobjenkins
07-22-2008, 08:22 PM
I'm BU. Bases empty, Batter hits the ball out to right field. While rounding 1B, BR gets makes contact with F3. At this time, I point out the to show that I saw the contact, BR takes 2-3 steps and then turns back to 1b as ball is being trown into 2B. I leave the BR at 1B. OC comes out and asks why BR didnt get 2B. I explained that in my judgment the BR did not make an attempt at 2B, so I was leaving him at 1B.


He accepted my explaination, but after some thought, should he have gotten 2B or is this a HTBT sitch?

Note that if this games was played under FED rules, then you have to award second, since you (apparently) judged the contact to be obstruction.

Note also that not all contact is obstruction, and, if this wasnt' obstruction, you shouldn't have pointed out the contact.

JBowling
07-22-2008, 08:49 PM
Note also that not all contact is obstruction, and, if this wasnt' obstruction, you shouldn't have pointed out the contact.

Just as a friendly reminder to newer umpires that may read this thread, Obstruction does not always require contact either.

dileonardoja
07-22-2008, 08:59 PM
...Note also that not all contact is obstruction, and, if this wasnt' obstruction, you shouldn't have pointed out the contact.

In these case you should call out "THATS NOTHING" to reinforce that you actually saw it and deemed it nothing.

bobjenkins
07-22-2008, 09:31 PM
...Note also that not all contact is obstruction, and, if this wasnt' obstruction, you shouldn't have pointed out the contact.

In these case you should call out "THATS NOTHING" to reinforce that you actually saw it and deemed it nothing.

Yes -- and give the "safe" signal (I meant to add that to the original respaonse -- thanks for the reminder)

gilbert924
07-22-2008, 09:41 PM
Thanks everyone for the comments. This was played under OBR rules. At the time I made the call, I knew I was correct. Just after the game I was reviewing the game in my mind and started to question it.

Again, I appreciate the comments.

bobjenkins
07-29-2008, 03:39 PM
In a sitch similar to the OP, when the batter-runner is obstructed by F3 after hitting this ball to F9, tell me when it goes from Type B to Type A.

1) When F9 has the ball?
2) When F9 crow hops?
3) When F9 cocks his arm to throw it in?
4) When the ball leaves F9's hand?
5) When the cutoff man raises his glove?



None of the above. If the throw is to the cut-off man, then it's not a play on anyone, yet.

If it's a throw to a base, then, I'll take option 4.