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View Full Version : Pickoff at 2nd, how do you call it?


fan01
07-15-2008, 12:45 PM
Pickoff try at second base, the runner gets back to second base standing up, the shortstop coming in, behind second base, has to reach around the runner, standing on second, to catch the throw. The shortstop, after catching the ball, is off balance and leans on the runner, the runner falls to the ground with the shortstop and comes off the base. The shortstop applies the tag from the catch to the ground.
What is the ruling on this play?

_bobby_
07-15-2008, 01:01 PM
safe (obstruction)
place the runner where u think he would have got without the obstruction being there.
i.e. 2nd base..

bobjenkins
07-15-2008, 01:56 PM
Legal play (just a train wreck). The out stands.

Tim_C
07-15-2008, 02:07 PM
It is simply a baseball play: "Out!"

Regards,

rhoffer21
07-15-2008, 02:15 PM
The shortstop, after catching the ball, is off balance and leans on the runner, the runner falls to the ground with the shortstop and comes off the base.

If the ss forces him off the bag call him safe.

_bobby_
07-15-2008, 02:20 PM
Legal play (just a train wreck). The out stands.
It is simply a baseball play: "Out!"

Regards,

did i misread the sitch?
runner steals 2nd succesfully.
the ss forces the runner from 2nd off the base (no intent), tags him on the floor, and you call out?

am i missing something?

GoodCallBlue
07-15-2008, 02:25 PM
Safe.

Dano
07-15-2008, 02:30 PM
HTBT

Did F6 contact the runner in the realm of the play, i.e., moving to the ball and the contact is incidental... OUT.

If F6 forcibly moves runner off bag.. then it is safe.

Tim_C
07-15-2008, 02:35 PM
" . . . did i misread the sitch?"

Evidently.

" . . . runner steals 2nd succesfully."

You misread . . . it was a pickoff at second.

"the ss forces the runner from 2nd off the base (no intent), tags him on the floor, and you call out?"

As I read the OP this play is the exact same play of the Kent Hrbek/Ron Gant play.

I would call the out as the OP is just a trainwreck as Bob pointed out.

Regards,

ExCop
07-15-2008, 02:51 PM
HTBT, but if I have the SS shoving the runner off his base, then trying to make an out of it, I have nothing. Safe at second.

Of course, baseball could be a lot more "interesting" if we started making runners defend their bases like strategic, military checkpoints :wink:

BrianC14
07-15-2008, 02:57 PM
HTBT, but if I have the SS shoving the runner off his base, then trying to make an out of it, I have nothing. Safe at second.

Of course, baseball could be a lot more "interesting" if we started making runners defend their bases like strategic, military checkpoints :wink:

:lol:

You mean like "Capture the flag" or "Stratego" ? :)

ExCop
07-15-2008, 03:13 PM
HTBT, but if I have the SS shoving the runner off his base, then trying to make an out of it, I have nothing. Safe at second.

Of course, baseball could be a lot more "interesting" if we started making runners defend their bases like strategic, military checkpoints :wink:

:lol:

You mean like "Capture the flag" or "Stratego" ? :)

No, I was thinking more like Tae Kwon Do or kickboxing :wink:

_bobby_
07-15-2008, 03:20 PM
" . . . did i misread the sitch?"

Evidently.

" . . . runner steals 2nd succesfully."

You misread . . . it was a pickoff at second.

"the ss forces the runner from 2nd off the base (no intent), tags him on the floor, and you call out?"

As I read the OP this play is the exact same play of the Kent Hrbek/Ron Gant play.

I would call the out as the OP is just a trainwreck as Bob pointed out.

Regards,

jup - misread. missed the "got back to second". thx

still have trouble seeing the a runner safe, then knocked off his base from an action caused by the SS, then tagged for an out.

if the runner wasnt already safe on base and the action was part of the fielding then sure. but the sitch states that the runner was already safe on 2nd.

could lead to lots of intresting situations tho.

HoosierBlue
07-16-2008, 12:35 AM
I have a general disdain for runners getting back standing up and interfering with the throw ... so in my book, he's out.

Good baseball play by F6.
Bad base running by R2.

umpjmb
07-16-2008, 04:05 AM
Gotta be a balk-- See post under other section...

HoosierBlue
07-16-2008, 04:26 AM
Gotta be a balk-- See post under other section...
HUH?

Didn't you post this on the wrong thread?

BigUmp56
07-16-2008, 05:53 AM
I have a general disdain for runners getting back standing up and interfering with the throw ... so in my book, he's out.

Good baseball play by F6.
Bad base running by R2.


Is there a rule to support your disdain for runners legally choosing not to slide back into a bag?


My new acronym for this is :

MSU


Tim.

HoosierBlue
07-16-2008, 05:58 AM
Is there a rule to support your disdain for runners legally choosing not to slide back into a bag?

My new acronym for this is : MSU
Tim.
Yours is a Rhetorical Question ... and obviously the answer is no.
The OP is also clearly a HTBT situation with no answer carrying any clout.

If your name is HRBEK you may shove the runner off legally.
Otherwise you may not.

mn_ump
07-16-2008, 07:17 AM
So..............

Hrbek should have held his right arm in front of Gant in order to be a nice guy and prevent him from losing his balance? Hrbek did nothing other than keep his mitt in contact with Gant's leg. Gant was out because he came back to the bag standing up and lost his balance.

Get over it already.

HoosierBlue
07-16-2008, 07:25 AM
Your handle is MN_Ump.

I think you need to "recuse" yourself from any discussion about a MN player ... don't you think?

Hrbek pushed (technically "pulled") Gant ... everyone (else) saw it and knows it.

mn_ump
07-16-2008, 07:46 AM
1. Who cares where I live?

2. How exactly did Hrbek "pull" Gant off the base when his mitt was on the infield side of the base and Gant lost his balance to the foul side of the base? Would'd he need to use his bare hand in order to get the leverage necessary to "pull" an athlete as well conditioned as Gant?

3. Would this situation happen if Gant didn't mind getting his uniform dirty and sliding back to the bag? His mommy doesn't do his laundry anymore. (I hope)

4. You had a better view of the play than Drew Coble?

5. Braves "fans" have been grasping at straws for many years now, looking for excuses to explain why they only won one World Series during the period that they were the "dominant" team in baseball.

HoosierBlue
07-16-2008, 07:54 AM
First off, I am not a Braves fan ... couldn't care less.
You are clearly a Twinkies fan, so that is relevant.
This play has made top ten lists of "blown calls" for over ten years.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/readers/worstcalls.html

http://jettingthroughlife.blogspot.com/2006/07/top-10-worst-referee-calls.html

Look up Ken Hrbek's Wikipedia page and pay special attention to the wording.
Wikipedia pages generally make the principle look "good" not "bad" since the contributors are almost purely advocates.


And let me guess ... you thought Denkinger made a gutsy and correct call on Orta?

Coble blew the call. Coble knew it. Sorry you came late to the party.

mn_ump
07-16-2008, 08:33 AM
Denkinger missed the call in the 85 Series. He admitted to it. I have yet to see where Coble admits to blowing the call in 91.

I hate Twinkies. They taste like crap.

I am curoius how things look from your point of view, but I am not willing to shove my head up your...

blue32
07-16-2008, 07:24 PM
he is obviously safe. the shortstop must do all he can to avoid hitting the runner after he gets back to the correct base. if there is no intent on contacting the runner then there should be no contact at all :!:

Tim_C
07-16-2008, 07:41 PM
" . . . the shortstop must do all he can to avoid hitting the runner after he gets back to the correct base."

OK, I'll take the bait (dadgumit, I know better):

"Please lead me to the proper citation that confirms this statement."

umpjmb
07-16-2008, 08:23 PM
umpjmb wrote:
Gotta be a balk-- See post under other section...

HUH?

Didn't you post this on the wrong thread?

Geez, Hoosier, can't you connect from one post to another?!?! See "General" under the "Hard to Balk to 2B" post. IT'S A JOKE!!! (Primarily for Tim's sake...)

OK, I'll take the bait (dadgumit, I know better):

"Please lead me to the proper citation that confirms this statement."

It's right next to the section on how to balk to 2B... (a joke, Hoosier, a joke...)

HoosierBlue
07-16-2008, 09:08 PM
umpjmb ... I humbly apologize ... I didn't get it.

LMan
07-17-2008, 07:53 PM
the shortstop must do all he can to avoid hitting the runner after he gets back to the correct base.


8O whaa?