partners with no or really bad mechanics

[mazzamouth]

So I got asked to umpire a College showcase tourny for a bunch of high school kids ( a bunch or really good kids). The 1st game I was UIC and my partner ( whom I found out later has never had no training, in the satte of Missouri to become a high school umpire all you have to do is pay your money, they will send you the test and then, if you pass... your a high school umpire) leaves me hanging on a fair/foul call in the botom of the 7th, the ball was slicing toward the line there was nobody on base and he turned in to watch the runner and follow him, I was also blinded by a big 1stbaseman ( made every effort to get a good look at the hit....... I could tell if the ball was fair or foul and my partner never saw it, so........ I call it foul...

I was taught the it is easier to bring the kid back and have him hit again than to call it fair and it could of been a foul. I didnt get to pregame with him as he showed up 5 mins before game time.... and he never once sent back any hand and arm signals... any body ever have any partners like this?

[BigUmp56]

I didnt get to pregame with him as he showed up 5 mins before game time.... and he never once sent back any hand and arm signals... any body ever have any partners like this?

A number of times this has happened to me. I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt that maybe something unusual took place that had him making it to the game at the last minute, but if he's flip about it and seems like it's the norm for him, I'll ask to not be assigned with him again.


Tim.

[bigblu2u2]

If you are working fed, once you call it foul, it is always foul. If you call it fair, play can proceed and you can bring the batter back to the plate if you OVERRULE YOURSELF. I would call it fair 1st. As to your partner, what did you discuss in your pregame? I would have a good pregame prepared with all the things that you need to cover for the next time. You were the UIC 1st game, it was your responsibility to make sure that these points of responsibility were covered.

I assign and work Major league Baseballs East Coast Pro baseball Showcase in August. What is good about showcases, it really doesn't matter who wins or loses. At this showcase though, I have every major league teams scouts there, and 200 plus college coaches also. The only time they see you is when you screw up. Hey, I guess that makes it like every other game! But at showcases you can fix your "woops" and move on, and people don't get to pissed at you. Do it enough, and you don't get asked back. Last year, out of the 100 invitees to this showcase, 86 of them were drafted. Pretty good showcase. I said "Wow" a lot.

[archangel14]

My guess is that, as a newer official, he's worked w PU's who like to call the lines all the way out (I remember as a newbie BU- being told this by my PU).
In any case, I guess you learned a lesson that you need to pregame, even if you only have a couple minutes to touch on the main points, or even delay the game a few minutes to confer....As PU , this mistake is shared between you both....

[dash_riprock]

Sounds like your partner misread a trouble ball down the line, but once he comes in and pivots, the fair/foul & catch/no catch are yours. You have to get out and see it. In summer leagues, it is quite common for there to be no lines (at least around here). PU has to take them all.

[mazzamouth]

I know it was a long message but my partner showed up about 5 mins maybe less before game time... So i didnt have a chance to pregame.... I did talk to him aftet the game and all he said is i was told that the plate umpire has all fair/foul balls.. alot of guys here in missouri don't go through training to become a HS umpire....

[mazzamouth]

Sounds like your partner misread a trouble ball down the line, but once he comes in and pivots, the fair/foul & catch/no catch are yours. You have to get out and see it. In summer leagues, it is quite common for there to be no lines (at least around here). PU has to take them all.


oh yea there was no lines here either.. we have had a alot of rain and they got washed away.... I feel i made the right call as nobody said anything.. just a couple of moans ..but nobody ..no coaches said anything.

[dawgdchi]

hey mazza...where in Missouri do you umpire?

[mazzamouth]

hey mazza...where in Missouri do you umpire?


Warrensburg... Sedalia.. Knob Noster... and anywhere else Ican find a game where you at?

[dawgdchi]

I'm down in the Jeff City/Columbia area.

I've just been working local leagues for the cities so far, but hoping to do some lower level HS stuff once my certification materials get here. I've already had 2 assigners tell me to get this done as they need umps.

[royalones]

I know what you mean about the training. I am fortunate, though. I've moved back to Missouri (Cass County area) after having spent some time in the Virginia Beach area for a couple of years. I was put through some awesome training by guys who spent time in MLB. The association made it a point to get their newbies into clinics and camps before the season started. I had already had some basic experience, but their training made the difference. I was able to work some woodbat leagues that was incredible.

I am looking forward to getting started in Missouri.

[ump34]

If you are the UIC then you need to take responsibility for what takes place, you could have talked to your partner between innings on this and that to make sure you are on the same page. Don't bad mouth your partners in blue when you are the one in charge. Just my view.

[Willy]

For you Missiouri guys, there are 2 clinics that are held in Springfield every year in Sept. The Mid-American Umpire Clinic is a weekend 2 man clinic. Very good clinic taught by good people. The Mid-American Advanced Umpire Clinic is a weekend advanced 3 man clinic taught by some of the best college umpires in the country. If anyone has desires to move up the college ranks, this is the clinic to go to. Assigners from major conferences are usually there to check people out. The advanced clinic is usually full by the beginning of July, so you have to register early.

[Pete_Booth]

I didnt get to pregame with him as he showed up 5 mins before game time.... and he never once sent back any hand and arm signals... any body ever have any partners like this?

IMO, what you should have done is had a SOLID post game with this umpire.

My first HS game I was working with a veteran umpire and I showed up to the game site 15 minutes before game time.

This particular umpire was well respected and I learned a lot from.

He gave me a GREAT post-game meaning it was constructive criticism.

Before he started talking to me about mechanics etc., the first words he said to me was

"Son you were late. Next time call me during your lunch break or the night before"

I think it's safe to say that most if not all of us have worked with a "shaky" partner. It's then up to "us" to TELL that individual "mono-on-mono" what the "deal is".

If the umpire cares he/she will most likely thank you for the critique. If they do not care that's an altogether different story meaning "Up Front" no backstabbing tell this individual that I simply cannot work with you since you do not care and are not willing to try and improve. I do not believe in "tattle tailing" but on the same token I will let this individual KNOW that the assignor has to be notified because I cannot work with you.

In Summary: When working with a bad partner or not necessarily a bad partner but an inexperienced one, you FIRST need to have a SOLID Post-game to express your opinions BEFORE going to the assignor.

I for one am glad I had some good partners in the beginning of my career who took the time to aid me in my development. Also, which seems to be a problem these days as evidenced by some posts, you need to be able to EXCEPT constructive criticism without getting "bent out of shape"

Pete Booth

[Willy]

You can ACCEPT constructive critisism too.

Sorry Pete, had to do it. Is that why you were demoted to Newbie status?

[MCLEOD36]

Just communication. We can all give each other shittake, and it is usually constructive. If you work with a dope, ie know it all, then try and talk to him, if he still acts up....pass on the next assignment with him. I am sure we have all worked with guys we dont want to, but when that happens, I just try and stay sharp and keep my partners back if they blow one.

[Pete_Booth]

You can ACCEPT constructive critisism too.

Sorry Pete, had to do it. Is that why you were demoted to Newbie status?

I have no idea what happened and YES I can take constructive critisism. Been doing it all my life - Just ask my kids

Pete Booth

[BrianC14]

You can ACCEPT constructive critisism too.

Sorry Pete, had to do it. Is that why you were demoted to Newbie status?

And that would be "criticism". ;)

[JohnnyD]

If you change the "mono on mono" to "stereo on stereo" the message is much clearer.

Aside, "mano a mano" does not mean "man to man". It means "hand to hand" as in combat.

...but I agree totally with the solid post-game idea. It is more important than a pre-game for a newer ump. With no follow up, a pre-game to a rookie is vitually useless.

JD

[mazzamouth]

IMO, what you should have done is had a SOLID post game with this umpire.

My first HS game I was working with a veteran umpire and I showed up to the game site 15 minutes before game time.

This particular umpire was well respected and I learned a lot from.

He gave me a GREAT post-game meaning it was constructive criticism.

Before he started talking to me about mechanics etc., the first words he said to me was

"Son you were late. Next time call me during your lunch break or the night before"

I think it's safe to say that most if not all of us have worked with a "shaky" partner. It's then up to "us" to TELL that individual "mono-on-mono" what the "deal is".

If the umpire cares he/she will most likely thank you for the critique. If they do not care that's an altogether different story meaning "Up Front" no backstabbing tell this individual that I simply cannot work with you since you do not care and are not willing to try and improve. I do not believe in "tattle tailing" but on the same token I will let this individual KNOW that the assignor has to be notified because I cannot work with you.

In Summary: When working with a bad partner or not necessarily a bad partner but an inexperienced one, you FIRST need to have a SOLID Post-game to express your opinions BEFORE going to the assignor.

I for one am glad I had some good partners in the beginning of my career who took the time to aid me in my development. Also, which seems to be a problem these days as evidenced by some posts, you need to be able to EXCEPT constructive criticism without getting "bent out of shape"

Pete Booth


Pete After the game we had a long talk.. I gave him a CCA manual and the next time we had a games he was much better..

[mazzamouth]

For you Missiouri guys, there are 2 clinics that are held in Springfield every year in Sept. The Mid-American Umpire Clinic is a weekend 2 man clinic. Very good clinic taught by good people. The Mid-American Advanced Umpire Clinic is a weekend advanced 3 man clinic taught by some of the best college umpires in the country. If anyone has desires to move up the college ranks, this is the clinic to go to. Assigners from major conferences are usually there to check people out. The advanced clinic is usually full by the beginning of July, so you have to register early.



Those clinics are good... but there are a lot of guys around here that dont wanna go to these.... I just went to the NCUS which was a Advanced 3 man camp....

[torquer]

So I got asked to umpire a College showcase tourny for a bunch of high school kids ( a bunch or really good kids). The 1st game I was UIC and my partner ( whom I found out later has never had no training, in the satte of Missouri to become a high school umpire all you have to do is pay your money, they will send you the test and then, if you pass... your a high school umpire) leaves me hanging on a fair/foul call in the botom of the 7th, the ball was slicing toward the line there was nobody on base and he turned in to watch the runner and follow him, I was also blinded by a big 1stbaseman ( made every effort to get a good look at the hit....... I could tell if the ball was fair or foul and my partner never saw it, so........ I call it foul...

I was taught the it is easier to bring the kid back and have him hit again than to call it fair and it could of been a foul. I didnt get to pregame with him as he showed up 5 mins before game time.... and he never once sent back any hand and arm signals... any body ever have any partners like this?

Yep, plenty. Thats part of working with rookies. They will do the unorthodox mechanic. The key is he teachable. If he thinks he has no room for input then your doomed, but if its just plain inexperience thats another thing. Take the time to have a pregame no matter what time the game starts. Or have a chat during the game, its better than the alternative.
Jess

[heyblue26]

I have worked with guys that have really bad mechanics and it was difficult for me as a crew member to what they were calling or even doing, no hustle just plain do not move. Some like to show boat on every call.

I think there are times that you must sell your call that you made but not always just be in the right position and angle and distance to make the call. Even had fellow umpires still using the outside chest protector and using it as a sheild and can't make a correct call on the pitch because there hiding behind it.

I have at times between innings tried to provide some advice to them and help if I can but he may not want any or say yea I know and not correct himself so then I just let him call his game and of course it all gets back to the assignor and when he ask all that were in the crew did anyone help or let him know. But I just let them know that I will help but If he doesn't want any just do not put us together again. Some are teachable others are not.

I have worked with one person (Two-Man Mechanics) whom never called a game in his life and gave him a pre-game brief and instructed him where to be in postion and move on different plays and he did a good job and after the game as we walked from the field he said to me it is not easy as it looks and I told him that he did a good job and that the more you work the games the more you will learn He had a great attitude and wants to do games again this year.


Just My IMO.

[mstaylor]

As an instructor for my group, one of my jobs i to work with new guys to help bring them along. Sometimes it is fun to help a guy out. Other times it's frustrating when you get a guy that doesn't want to learn.

[DannyC]

I have to back up MS's thread above! Becasue I had attended their Spring Clinic the last three years, I had gotten to know a lot of the members. He is one of my instructors, and worked w/me last year at a HS scrimmage. It was my 1st season doing that level. Our association sends 2 or 3 instructors to each site to work w/the new guys. Every 1/2 inning they come out and discussed what they saw.
For me, it was a great experience! At the Post Game, in the parking lot, we got in great depth. One night I didn't leave the school until after 8:00... at a 4:00 game! As long as you had questions, they would/will stay.
I just couldn't have gotten in a better HS organization!

Thanks,
DannyC