pitch count/ innings per week

[enrico_palazzo]

11-13 olds. OBR. Junior Babe Ruth.

We have had a well above average amount of rainouts this year...this is forcing some teams to play as many as 4 games in 7 days when doing thier make-up games. Because of this, I have been seeing alot of the same teams, in a relative short amount of time, and I think I see an issue that is going to come up with one team in particular.

I would like to know from some of the senior guys how to handle, or who they believe exactly has the responsibility for tracking pitching.

The league has a 9 innings per week limit for the young men at this age division.

How would you handle it if you saw a pitcher take to the hill that you know has reached his per/week limit? Would you call time and order the coach to replace the pitcher? EJ the player or coach (I do fell like this a blatent form of cheating) Would you order him to turn over his "book" and go through past few games to get hard evidence?

If you don't feel it is the umpire's job to keep track..i would also like to know why

Thank you for your time

[Ozzy]

11-13 olds. OBR. Junior Babe Ruth.

We have had a well above average amount of rainouts this year...this is forcing some teams to play as many as 4 games in 7 days when doing thier make-up games. Because of this, I have been seeing alot of the same teams, in a relative short amount of time, and I think I see an issue that is going to come up with one team in particular.

I would like to know from some of the senior guys how to handle, or who they believe exactly has the responsibility for tracking pitching.

The league has a 9 innings per week limit for the young men at this age division.

How would you handle it if you saw a pitcher take to the hill that you know has reached his per/week limit? Would you call time and order the coach to replace the pitcher? EJ the player or coach (I do fell like this a blatent form of cheating) Would you order him to turn over his "book" and go through past few games to get hard evidence?

If you don't feel it is the umpire's job to keep track..i would also like to know why

Thank you for your time
First off, we as umpires do not get involved with pitching restrictions. This is more of a league management item. You see, we don't always see the same teams so we have no idea if the pitcher is within or out of restriction. Even if I know that a pitcher has gone beyond his restriction (such as in HS), I have no authority to stop the game and bring it to anyone's attention. This has to be monitored by the teams as it could cause league action against the offender. Even LL decided not to have the umpires get involved with the pitch count.

[enrico_palazzo]

I have no authority to stop the game and bring it to anyone's attention. This has to be monitored by the teams as it could cause league action against the offender. Even LL decided not to have the umpires get involved with the pitch count.

have seen NUMEROUS posts on here about what i believe Richard refers to as "lazy" umpiring...that is...seeing a violation....knowing it is a violation...and letting it slide.

babe ruth OBR 0.06

[t-rex]

I am not a senior guy, as you requested, but I will weigh in and say that Ozzy is right.

Pitching limits should be enforced by the coaches and league officials. I consider this to be similar to a batting out of order situation. The Official Rules of Baseball tell us that we should not bring a BOO situation to the attention of either team. Further, the official scorekeeper is told in 10.01(b)(5) not to bring a BOO situation to the attention of the umpires or either team.

Our local rules which further modify USSSA pitching rules also indicate that this is a matter left to the coaches, but without this note in our local rules I would leave the matter alone because of my thinking that this is a somewhat similar situation to the batting order.

[TarheelUmp]

I say let it go. Unless for whatever league you work the umpire is responsible for keeping count. This is a league administration issue. Leagues have all sorts of rules we dont get involved in. I definately do not want to get involved in the heated debates about which teams parents turn it is to work the concession stand either.

[JBowling]

I would say that if are absolutely sure that this kid has gone over the limit (i.e. You had the team on Tues. and he threw 5 innings; You have the team again on Sat. and he throws 5 more innings) then I would report it to the league. Otherwise, leave it alone, this enforcement is not the umpire's job.

[Rich_Ives]

Even LL decided not to have the umpires get involved with the pitch count.

Not exactly true. LL lets each league decide who keeps the count.

For the issue at hand, I don't know the BR rule but LL says:

4.19
NOTE 2: All Little League officials are urged to take precautions to prevent protests. When a protest situation is imminent, the potential offender should be notified immediately. Example: should a manager, official scorer, league official or umpire discover that a pitcher is ineligible at the beginning of a game, or will become ineligible during the game or at the start of the next inning of play; the fact should be brought to the attention of the manager of the team involved. Such action should not be delayed until the infraction has occurred.

Bottom line: Don't let it happen.

[KenGibes]

It's clear from the LL rulebook that, although LL doesn't go as far as to make it a requirement, all league officials, umpires, and managers are strongly encouraged to prevent protest situations before they happen.

I don't keep track of the pitch counts When I umpire LL games. However, if I overhear a pitcher's pitch count being quoted while I'm reporting substitutions to the official scorer, I'll make a note if a particular pitcher is close to his limit. If I KNOW that a pitcher has become ineligible, I will stop the game and remind/notify his manager that he needs to be replaced.

This is not the same as BOO. LL asks all league and game officials to prevent protest situations before they happen. BOO isn't a protest situation.

[Ozzy]

I have no authority to stop the game and bring it to anyone's attention. This has to be monitored by the teams as it could cause league action against the offender. Even LL decided not to have the umpires get involved with the pitch count.

have seen NUMEROUS posts on here about what i believe Richard refers to as "lazy" umpiring...that is...seeing a violation....knowing it is a violation...and letting it slide.

babe ruth OBR 0.06
Lazy, huh? You make some pretty bold assumptions when you don't know the answers. Have a nice life with yourself!

[abevillarreal]

I coach in a simular league... both managers go online to report scores and innings pitched for both teams after each game, if a player has pitched beyond the per week limit the game is forfeited. hope this helps, Abe

[smoyer]

Ozzy is right.This is not being lazy,it's just not sticking your nose in something where it does not belong.

[Rich_Ives]

Ozzy is right.This is not being lazy,it's just not sticking your nose in something where it does not belong.

Whether or not it belongs isn't your decision. The rules of the organization determine it.

[PeteBooth]

11-13 olds. OBR. Junior Babe Ruth.

We have had a well above average amount of rainouts this year...this is forcing some teams to play as many as 4 games in 7 days when doing thier make-up games. Because of this, I have been seeing alot of the same teams, in a relative short amount of time, and I think I see an issue that is going to come up with one team in particular.

I would like to know from some of the senior guys how to handle, or who they believe exactly has the responsibility for tracking pitching.

The league has a 9 innings per week limit for the young men at this age division.

How would you handle it if you saw a pitcher take to the hill that you know has reached his per/week limit? Would you call time and order the coach to replace the pitcher? EJ the player or coach (I do fell like this a blatent form of cheating) Would you order him to turn over his "book" and go through past few games to get hard evidence?

If you don't feel it is the umpire's job to keep track..i would also like to know why

Thank you for your time

For the most part I agree with Ozzy. We as umpires have no clue how many innings a kid pitched etc. That is for the league to decide HOWEVER,

If my assignor calls and says "Pete you have School A vs. School B Today. For Team A Timmy Smith CANNOT Pitch.

If that's the case then I simply mark that down when I receive the line-up cards at Home Plate from the manager so that in the event School A wants Timmy to pitch I put a stop to it.

From your OP it sounds as though you do most of your umpiring for this league and have "first hand knowledge" of the pitch counts. If that's the case then at the plate conference before anything happens you simply tell the manager that number 23 is ineligable to pitch.

In a nutshell as umpires we have plenty to do without worrying about Adminitsrative type issues. I agree with Ozzy.

Pete Booth

[Wharf_Rat]

If my assignor calls and says "Pete you have School A vs. School B Today. For Team A Timmy Smith CANNOT Pitch.


If this is the case, why can't the assignor or league call the coach to "remind" him that Timmy Smith is ineligible to pitch? Everyone has been posting that we are not administrators, but yet you are saying that it is o.k. for the assignor to tell us to be an administrator. I feel that if the league already knows that Timmy can't pitch, they certainly have their ways of finding out if he did or not. The last thing I need is to be handed the sh*ty end of the stick by my own assignor and possibly causing a situation between me and the coach by telling him before the game who can or can't play. just my $.02.

[PeteBooth]

If my assignor calls and says "Pete you have School A vs. School B Today. For Team A Timmy Smith CANNOT Pitch.


If this is the case, why can't the assignor or league call the coach to "remind" him that Timmy Smith is ineligible to pitch? Everyone has been posting that we are not administrators, but yet you are saying that it is o.k. for the assignor to tell us to be an administrator. I feel that if the league already knows that Timmy can't pitch, they certainly have their ways of finding out if he did or not. The last thing I need is to be handed the sh*ty end of the stick by my own assignor and possibly causing a situation between me and the coach by telling him before the game who can or can't play. just my $.02.

First off how do we know that the coaches were not informed. Coaches did not get the nickname "rat" for nothing.

Also, there are RULES and PENALTIES associated with the use of an INELIGABLE player and if Timmy cannot pitch and the manager inserts him has F1 then there is a Penalty associated with it and IMO if possible what is wrong with knowing this.

As far as getting the sh*ty end of the stick you are going to get it anyway and is part of the job because for the most part as soon as Coach A inserts Timmy into pitch the manager of Team B is going to do one of 2 things.

1. Ask for Time and say 'hey Blue Timmy cannnot pitch" or

2. Wait for Timmy to actually pitch and then request Time and "Say Blue Timmy is not eligable to pitch"

Now IT IS OUR PROBLEM because we have a "he said she said" situation

AND the game is now slowed down because we have to get a DIFINITIVE answer from someone

vs.

Simply stating at the Plate Conference "Skip Timmy cannot pitch today" - End of Story - Stops all the shanigans and also "delay of the game"

As I said I agree with OZZY unless I am informed. I do not go "out of my way" over administrative type functions but if I have First hand knowledge of the situation why sit back and wait for the Sh** to hit the fan.

Pete Booth