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MaestroBen
06-14-2008, 07:22 AM
Just typed this one up.
Jr. Legion game.

3 comments before anyone else chimes in:

1. Nebraska is the state that has the waivers for base coach helmets. Hopefully this will explain to y'all why sent such a lengthy report.
2. After I ejected the coach, I should have moved away more quickly, so that he could not continue to talk to me.
3. My partner should have intercepted the coach after the ejection and escorted him back towards his dugout.

My partner and I have already discussed points 2 and 3.

A question. At the end of the report, I discuss this coach's protest. The protest was given to me by this coach after the ejection (he was walking away, we were leaving the field, and he ran after me). It seems impossible for an ejected head coach to file a protest. However, I can't seem to find written evidence of this. Given the circumstances, I would like to be able to discuss that without any doubt. Any ideas?

-----------Ejection Report Follows---------


Baseball ejection Report for Team B Jr. coach XXXXXXX.

As a preface, Coach XXXXXXX has protested this game. Details will follow at the end of the ejection report.

My partner and I arrived, slightly later than we would have liked—because of our unfamiliarity with the town—at the field at 6:40 p.m., for a scheduled 7:00 Jr. game between Team A and “Team B.” I realize that “Team B” has a different team name for American Legion play, but that name was never offered to me, and in the Arbiter, the team was listed as “Team B.”

At 6:45, Team B began taking their infield, 15 minutes later than they should. At the plate meeting, teams were informed of the 2 hour time limit, and other pertinent facts. Coach XXXXXXX questioned whether this game should have a two-hour time limit, since there was no following senior’s game. Coaches were informed, however, that by rule, Junior games have a two hour limit, even if a senior game is not following. There was no additional protest at this point.

Also at the plate meeting, Coach XXXXXXX informed me that he and his assistant coach had no helmets to wear while coaching on the bases, and that their waivers “were coming in the same car as the helmets.” He asked me if that would be acceptable. I informed him that it would not. I asked him if he could wear batting helmets. He said that he did not know if his team had enough helmets. I then asked the Team A coach if Coach XXXXXXX and his assistant could wear two of UBC’s batting helmets. At this point, Coach XXXXXXX left the plate meeting, without coming to a resolution on this issue. When he and his assistant coach took the field for the top of the first inning, they had somehow managed to find helmets.

Game time was announced as 7:10 p.m.

Early in the game, Coach XXXXXXX stormed out of the dugout, without requesting time, to argue a judgment call at 2nd base. He was informed that the runner was safe because the runner had easily beaten the throw to 2nd base, and further, the tag attempt—made while the runner was standing on 2nd base—was unsuccessful. And, that any further arguing of judgment calls would result in his ejection.

In the top of inning 3, his player “XXXX” (number 9--Coach XXXXXXX neglected to include full names on his lineup. He mentioned this at the plate meeting, saying “I trust this won’t be a problem”) was ejected for throwing his bat following a strikeout (see other ejection report). After this ejection, Coach XXXXXXX approached me, and asked “Why was he ejected?” I responded that he was ejected for throwing his bat. He then asked “is that a written rule?” I informed him, that indeed, it was a Nebraska American Legion rule:

4.03 (D) [Any coach, player, or manager can be ejected for] throwing bats or other equipment.

At that point, he interrupted me and asked “Well, is a pitch in the dirt a strike?” To which I answered with a question “Coach, are you arguing balls and strikes with me?” He turned and walked away without answering.

Later in the game, he exited his dugout, again without asking for “time,” to question me about potential batter’s interference on a catcher’s throw to third base. He wanted interference to be called. I informed him that there was no interference, because the batter was (a) in the batter’s box, (b) made no flagrant or deliberate attempt to interfere, and (c) there was no contact between the batter and either the catcher or the thrown ball. He then asked me “What is the definition of interference?” I informed him that baseball defined interference by the batter as defined above. He tried to complain by stating a dictionary definition of “interference.” I informed him that such a definition was not pertinent, as the baseball rules—and long-standing interpretations—are the only deciding factor for the definition of “Interference.”

As soon as the sixth inning ended, I checked with my partner, who had the official game clock. He announced that the time was 9:12. Therefore, the game was over, as an inning had ended after the two-hour time limit had expired. As my partner and I were leaving the field, Coach XXXXXXX stormed after us. He tried to tell me that, since we had not called the game at exactly 9:10, the time limit was invalid, and that we had to play a 7th inning. I informed him that the rule states that “no new inning may begin after the time limit has been reached.” I also reminded him that we had discussed the time limit at the plate meeting. He continued to vehemently argue that the game should not be over.

After he continued to argue for an extended length of time, I informed him that “you need to stop talking to me immediately and walk away, or you will be ejected.” He responded that “the game is over, I don’t care,” and continued to argue.

At that point I ejected him. He stated—incorrectly—that, “it doesn’t matter, the game is over, there’s nothing you can do to me.” He must not have remembered that an umpire’s authority does not end at the final out but extends until the umpires have left the premises. He also must not have remembered the mandatory one game suspension and possible further suspension. He continued to argue with me. I asked my partner to find an assistant coach to escort Coach XXXXXXX away from us and off the field. After the game, my partner revealed to me that he was ready to step in between me and Coach XXXXXXX, because he believed that Coach XXXXXXX was preparing to punch me.

Because of the unprofessional, unsportsmanlike, and potentially violent behavior described above, for the first time in my umpiring career I am recommending that this coach be suspended for a longer time than the one game suspension required by rule. Since the conclusion of the game, I have spoken with other umpires who have stated that they too have had “many problems” with this coach, during both the high school and American Legion seasons.



Finally, Coach XXXXXXX, after he finally removed himself from our presence and allowed us to begin to leave the field, stormed back and informed us that he wanted to protest the game. He informed me that he will protest because he believes that a 7th inning must be played, because we did not stop the game exactly at the 2-hour time limit (because we stopped when the sixth inning was complete, two whole minutes after the time limit). I informed him that I would inform the Legion office that he was going to protest, although, of course, official protests must be filed by coaches and not umpires.

Later, as my partner and I were returning to Lincoln, it dawned on me that I was unsure if an ejected coach can file a protest. I have since consulted with other experienced and knowledgeable umpires, including umpire A and umpire B. All of us are of the opinion that an ejected head coach has no ability to protest a game, and that that duty would fall to the assistant who assumes the responsibilities of the head coach. However, we cannot find anything definitive on this point in the rules.

In either case, it seems clear that this protest should not be upheld. Both coaches were aware of the two-hour time limit. This time limit was made clear at the plate meeting prior to the game. And, no one disputes that the 6th inning began before the two-hour time limit was over and ended after the time limit had expired.

Tim_C
06-14-2008, 01:21 PM
This report is EXACTLY why we limit ejection reports to 25 words or less in the Portland area.

My assigning commissioner would not even read this report.

Regards,

Dano
06-14-2008, 01:54 PM
I've watched presidential debates shorter than that report.

beenthere
06-14-2008, 02:32 PM
Sounds like your ejection was two hours late.
My suggestion would be take control, drop the on field book explanations
and play ball.
Coach wants to continue to play childish games eject early and have a good game.
After you do this a few times he will behave and save his antics for other games.
If not, he just won't spend much time at games you umpire.

SamuelRock
06-14-2008, 03:26 PM
Because of the unprofessional, unsportsmanlike, and potentially violent behavior described above, for the first time in my umpiring career I am recommending that this coach be suspended for a longer time than the one game suspension required by rule. Since the conclusion of the game, I have spoken with other umpires who have stated that they too have had “many problems” with this coach, during both the high school and American Legion seasons.


opinions and recommendations don't really have a place in ejection reports. It's like they said in Dragnet, just the facts Ma'am.

Tim_C
06-14-2008, 03:40 PM
Baseball ejection Report for Team B Jr. coach XXXXXXX.

As a preface, Coach XXXXXXX has protested this game. Details will follow at the end of the ejection report.

My partner and I arrived, slightly later than we would have liked—because of our unfamiliarity with the town—at the field at 6:40 p.m., for a scheduled 7:00 Jr. game between Team A and “Team B.” I realize that “Team B” has a different team name for American Legion play, but that name was never offered to me, and in the Arbiter, the team was listed as “Team B.”

At 6:45, Team B began taking their infield, 15 minutes later than they should. At the plate meeting, teams were informed of the 2 hour time limit, and other pertinent facts. Coach XXXXXXX questioned whether this game should have a two-hour time limit, since there was no following senior’s game. Coaches were informed, however, that by rule, Junior games have a two hour limit, even if a senior game is not following. There was no additional protest at this point.

Also at the plate meeting, Coach XXXXXXX informed me that he and his assistant coach had no helmets to wear while coaching on the bases, and that their waivers “were coming in the same car as the helmets.” He asked me if that would be acceptable. I informed him that it would not. I asked him if he could wear batting helmets. He said that he did not know if his team had enough helmets. I then asked the Team A coach if Coach XXXXXXX and his assistant could wear two of UBC’s batting helmets. At this point, Coach XXXXXXX left the plate meeting, without coming to a resolution on this issue. When he and his assistant coach took the field for the top of the first inning, they had somehow managed to find helmets.

Game time was announced as 7:10 p.m.

Early in the game, Coach XXXXXXX stormed out of the dugout, without requesting time, to argue a judgment call at 2nd base. He was informed that the runner was safe because the runner had easily beaten the throw to 2nd base, and further, the tag attempt—made while the runner was standing on 2nd base—was unsuccessful. And, that any further arguing of judgment calls would result in his ejection.

In the top of inning 3, his player “XXXX” (number 9--Coach XXXXXXX neglected to include full names on his lineup. He mentioned this at the plate meeting, saying “I trust this won’t be a problem”) was ejected for throwing his bat following a strikeout (see other ejection report). After this ejection, Coach XXXXXXX approached me, and asked “Why was he ejected?” I responded that he was ejected for throwing his bat. He then asked “is that a written rule?” I informed him, that indeed, it was a Nebraska American Legion rule:

4.03 (D) [Any coach, player, or manager can be ejected for] throwing bats or other equipment.

At that point, he interrupted me and asked “Well, is a pitch in the dirt a strike?” To which I answered with a question “Coach, are you arguing balls and strikes with me?” He turned and walked away without answering.

Later in the game, he exited his dugout, again without asking for “time,” to question me about potential batter’s interference on a catcher’s throw to third base. He wanted interference to be called. I informed him that there was no interference, because the batter was (a) in the batter’s box, (b) made no flagrant or deliberate attempt to interfere, and (c) there was no contact between the batter and either the catcher or the thrown ball. He then asked me “What is the definition of interference?” I informed him that baseball defined interference by the batter as defined above. He tried to complain by stating a dictionary definition of “interference.” I informed him that such a definition was not pertinent, as the baseball rules—and long-standing interpretations—are the only deciding factor for the definition of “Interference.”

As soon as the sixth inning ended, I checked with my partner, who had the official game clock. He announced that the time was 9:12. Therefore, the game was over, as an inning had ended after the two-hour time limit had expired. As my partner and I were leaving the field, Coach XXXXXXX stormed after us. He tried to tell me that, since we had not called the game at exactly 9:10, the time limit was invalid, and that we had to play a 7th inning. I informed him that the rule states that “no new inning may begin after the time limit has been reached.” I also reminded him that we had discussed the time limit at the plate meeting. He continued to vehemently argue that the game should not be over.

After he continued to argue for an extended length of time, I informed him that “you need to stop talking to me immediately and walk away, or you will be ejected.” He responded that “the game is over, I don’t care,” and continued to argue.

At that point I ejected him. He stated—incorrectly—that, “it doesn’t matter, the game is over, there’s nothing you can do to me.” He must not have remembered that an umpire’s authority does not end at the final out but extends until the umpires have left the premises. He also must not have remembered the mandatory one game suspension and possible further suspension. He continued to argue with me. I asked my partner to find an assistant coach to escort Coach XXXXXXX away from us and off the field. After the game, my partner revealed to me that he was ready to step in between me and Coach XXXXXXX, because he believed that Coach XXXXXXX was preparing to punch me.

Because of the unprofessional, unsportsmanlike, and potentially violent behavior described above, for the first time in my umpiring career I am recommending that this coach be suspended for a longer time than the one game suspension required by rule. Since the conclusion of the game, I have spoken with other umpires who have stated that they too have had “many problems” with this coach, during both the high school and American Legion seasons.



Finally, Coach XXXXXXX, after he finally removed himself from our presence and allowed us to begin to leave the field, stormed back and informed us that he wanted to protest the game. He informed me that he will protest because he believes that a 7th inning must be played, because we did not stop the game exactly at the 2-hour time limit (because we stopped when the sixth inning was complete, two whole minutes after the time limit). I informed him that I would inform the Legion office that he was going to protest, although, of course, official protests must be filed by coaches and not umpires.

Later, as my partner and I were returning to Lincoln, it dawned on me that I was unsure if an ejected coach can file a protest. I have since consulted with other experienced and knowledgeable umpires, including umpire A and umpire B. All of us are of the opinion that an ejected head coach has no ability to protest a game, and that that duty would fall to the assistant who assumes the responsibilities of the head coach. However, we cannot find anything definitive on this point in the rules.

In either case, it seems clear that this protest should not be upheld. Both coaches were aware of the two-hour time limit. This time limit was made clear at the plate meeting prior to the game. And, no one disputes that the 6th inning began before the two-hour time limit was over and ended after the time limit had expired.

************************************************** ******

Tim C's Report.


Start: 7:10

At end of 6th the official clock reported it was 9:12. Game was ended.

Coach XXXX was ejected for an extended argument.

Added Note:

A protest was incorrectly filed after the game had ended.

MaestroBen
06-14-2008, 04:09 PM
************************************************** ******

Tim C's Report.


Start: 7:10

At end of 6th the official clock reported it was 9:12. Game was ended.

Coach XXXX was ejected for an extended argument.

Added Note:

A protest was incorrectly filed after the game had ended.

Tim,

You beat me back.

Y'all are, of course, right.

Here's the report I'll file Monday...there are advantages to this backwards state where one can no longer file reports online.

Coach was ejected post-game when he stormed the field to argue that another inning should be played after the time limit had elapsed. After a warning, he was ejected. An incorrect protest was filed after the ejection.

Tim_C
06-14-2008, 04:39 PM
Excellent edit.

Regards,

Richard_Siegel
06-15-2008, 01:44 AM
************************************************** ******

Tim C's Report.


Start: 7:10

At end of 6th the official clock reported it was 9:12. Game was ended.

Coach XXXX was ejected for an extended argument.

Added Note:

A protest was incorrectly filed after the game had ended.

Thanks for saving me 30 minutes of reading.

BT_Blue
06-15-2008, 02:43 AM
************************************************** ******

Tim C's Report.


Start: 7:10

At end of 6th the official clock reported it was 9:12. Game was ended.

Coach XXXX was ejected for an extended argument.

Added Note:

A protest was incorrectly filed after the game had ended.

Thanks for saving me 30 minutes of reading.

only problem was that we all read it and lost 30 minutes of our life we will never get back.

One thing I dont see is what the coach said. I also agree that opinions have no place in the report. Is like a police report... only facts and direct quotes, if any, should be used.

Tim,
25 words or less? Really? Nice... here we have to submit as much as we can (not to the OP's extent but still). 25 words is easy!

BrianC14
06-15-2008, 03:07 AM
OK, I'll say it....


YGTBSM.

I mean, for crying out loud, why didn't you include the *(@(&^A* WEATHER report for the next 10 days while you were at it? :roll:

Richard_Siegel
06-15-2008, 05:07 AM
OK. It's late. It's quiet in the house. So I read the whole thing,

I would have run him at:

"At that point, he interrupted me and asked 'Well, is a pitch in the dirt a strike?'"

That was just obnoxious sarcasm. I never let that go.

VTponyump
06-15-2008, 03:36 PM
Richard has it right; the coach's pic is on a milk carton for the strike in the dirt comment.

JBowling
06-16-2008, 02:53 PM
In addition to other comments made about the length of your report, who cares what time you got there for the game. Sure you were running a little behind what most umpires would feel is an acceptable amount of time before the game, but you were there before the scheduled start time.

HoosierBlue
06-19-2008, 06:56 AM
I'm going to chime in from another angle here.

I absolutely never miss calling time out and announcing that time has expired ... right in the middle of an at-bat. In any league that has a time limit imposed, this is a must ... whether it prevents another inning from starting, or ends the game on the spot.

How many times has an ump glanced at his watch, noticed that he's 45 seconds over time, and thought, "Well, I'll let this guy finish his at bat." Sure enough, the batter hits into an exciting double play, and as the defense is celebrating on the way into the dugout, the ump cries, "Ballgame!"

It's correct ... but it's not well-played. Unless the scoreboard has a countdown clock, no one can be absolutely sure whether there is one minute left or 90 seconds left ... often the difference maker. Don't keep the game time a secret from the coaches.

The rule around here used to be, "Unless it is mathematically impossible to end the game during the at bat, call the time limit on the nose. Otherwise finish the at-bat." It only took a few screw-ups by guys who can't do the math to revise that to, "Call it on the spot every time."

HoosierBlue
06-19-2008, 06:58 AM
************************************************** ******
Tim C's Report.

Start: 7:10

At end of 6th the official clock reported it was 9:12. Game was ended.

Coach XXXX was ejected for an extended argument.

Added Note:

A protest was incorrectly filed after the game had ended.
Tim ... that's 36 words (not counting the title) ... please try again.

PNWBlue
06-19-2008, 08:36 PM
Hell, I thought I was long-winded!

rhoffer21
06-23-2008, 05:03 AM
I absolutely never miss calling time out and announcing that time has expired ... right in the middle of an at-bat. In any league that has a time limit imposed, this is a must ... whether it prevents another inning from starting, or ends the game on the spot.

I was under the impression that you could finish a complete inning that was started before the time limit but you couldnt start another inning after the time limit. It wouldnt be fair to have an away team get 6 at bats and a home team get 5

HoosierBlue
06-23-2008, 06:49 AM
I absolutely never miss calling time out and announcing that time has expired ... right in the middle of an at-bat. In any league that has a time limit imposed, this is a must ... whether it prevents another inning from starting, or ends the game on the spot.

I was under the impression that you could finish a complete inning that was started before the time limit but you couldnt start another inning after the time limit. It wouldnt be fair to have an away team get 6 at bats and a home team get 5
Correct ... and if you re-read my comments, you will see that that is covered quite thoroughly.

"whether it prevents another inning from starting" = home team behind in the bottom of the inning.
"or ends the game on the spot" = home team ahead in the bottom of the inning.

When the time limit expires in the top of the inning there is no need to announce it ... either the game will end between innings (home team ahead) or you simply announce between innings that this will be the final inning of regulation.

rhoffer21
06-24-2008, 05:46 AM
Wow, I went back and re-read your post like 4 times yesterday and for some reason i read it as something to the effect of "when the time limit is up, i end the game on the spot." everytime. It wasnt until today that what you ACTUALLY wrote made it to my brain and I figured it out. :P