Ejected rat returns

[NWUmp]

Saw this in a Legion game I was watching today. BU ejects rat between innings (after 3rd inning). Rat doesn't want to leave (thinks standing a couple of steps behind his team's bench is okay) but eventually does. A few innings later (6th inning of 7-inning game) he comes back, out of uniform, and is in the stands on his team's side. There's more, but let me stop here for a moment. He's not supposed to be there, that's clear. But all is moving along and umps either don't notice or they let it go. If you're on the field and do notice this, do you stop play and make him leave again, or is the situation history and you ignore this?

Now, the part that makes it even worse. Again, don't know if the umps on the field saw this or not, but another coach from his team walks over and is talking to the ejected rat. Then a player walks over and talks to him. I don't like to look for trouble on the field, and I'm not sure what I would have done if I just saw him in the stands. But when he's interacting with his team I think I would have to deal with it. Would you make him leave again, and then forfeit if he doesn't do so very quickly? I think that's probably what I would do, but am curious what others think. Thanks.

[Richard_Siegel]

Saw this in a Legion game I was watching today. BU ejects rat between innings (after 3rd inning). Rat doesn't want to leave (thinks standing a couple of steps behind his team's bench is okay) but eventually does. A few innings later (6th inning of 7-inning game) he comes back, out of uniform, and is in the stands on his team's side. There's more, but let me stop here for a moment. He's not supposed to be there, that's clear. But all is moving along and umps either don't notice or they let it go. If you're on the field and do notice this, do you stop play and make him leave again, or is the situation history and you ignore this?

Now, the part that makes it even worse. Again, don't know if the umps on the field saw this or not, but another coach from his team walks over and is talking to the ejected rat. Then a player walks over and talks to him. I don't like to look for trouble on the field, and I'm not sure what I would have done if I just saw him in the stands. But when he's interacting with his team I think I would have to deal with it. Would you make him leave again, and then forfeit if he doesn't do so very quickly? I think that's probably what I would do, but am curious what others think. Thanks.

If I noticed it I would go to the now-acting manager of the team of the ejected coach and tell him to go to the man and order him to leave at once and I would tell him the game will stop until the guy is gone, and oh, he will have one minute to get him going or it will be a forfeit. I would not confront or deal with the ejected man myself. I would make his assistent coach do the dirty work. I would quitely hold up play (have quite conference with the onther manger or umpire) so as not to draw attention to the situation. If the the guy leaves quietly then we resume the game with no mention of this. Although it would go in the report. If the guy seems to resist his coaches bidding to go, of if the assistent coach refuses to go tell the guy to go we terminate the game and recommend a forfeit to the other team.

[HOPPY]

As soon as I saw him I'd go to his dugout and inform the coach that if his ejected partner doesn't leave immediatly the game is over.
We had a doubleheader - off season H.S. / college kids. I'm in south Florida and during the summer you can pretty much do a game or as many games as you want dayly. There's been times when we've become pretty burnt out with the heat & humidity and also a little independant. Assignors are hard to piss off if you take care of them. Anyway - We got paid for both games at the plate meeting. Two innings into the first game the head coach, who's team traveled 50 miles, gets tossed. He starts to sit behind home plate. I told his partner in the dugout he has to leave - 2 minuets of crap - he heads out. We finish the game - get a bite - change - head back to the park and who's hitting infield ? Yep the ejected coach. This wasn't Legion Ball so we said to each other the hell with this we'll just give back the secound game fee and head to the house. Well, NOBODY liked that. Coach went home ballgame was played.
Turns out these kids and parents loved it when the A.H. left. We were told he has been tossed from every game so far this season including 2 other doubleheaders in which he coached in both games each time.
Good Guys Wear Blue.

[BellevueUmp]

I agree completely with Richard and Hoppy. He's either gone or the whole team can take the ride home with him. From your second paragraph, said rat has now resumed a coaching/managing role in the game, and while I can't quote chapter and verse from the rule book right now, we all know that persons ejected are expressly prohibited from taking any further part in the game.

The only thing I would add is that I'd recommend contacting the assignor and either have him speak with the appropriate Legion sports representatives or advise him that I would. This kind of behavior is little more than cheap political theater and (IMHO) deserves a 'shot across the bow' from someone at department level or some sort of sanction. If there's someone on-scene (tournament director, for example), they should also be advised. It's their job to be the 'bad guy' in a sitch like this, anyway.

I had a similar incident happen last year. I had ejected a manager for using profanity while arguing a reversed call. An inning or two later, my crew partner (the BU) noticed that he'd returned (evidently after changing clothes) and was sitting either in the stands near the dugout or in the dugout. BU quickly directed the asst coach that the head rat was to stay gone, which he did.


That said, I'm now going to toss a 'thought grenade' into the thread. What would be the proper action for an umpire in the stands (ostensibly as an observer/spectator - no role in the game or tournament) who sees this occur? Discreetly get word to the on-field officials? Speak to the opposing coach/manager? Maybe say something to the offender yourself? How about the 'loud & obnoxious' approach (go to the offender and loudly say some thing like, "HEY JOE, WHAT'S UP? I THOUGHT YOU GOT KICKED OUT OF HERE A FEW MINUTES AGO?")? I'm not really being serious on that last one, it's pretty much guaranteed to go over like the proverbial fart in church. :oops:

That's just my $.02, but I am very interested in opinions on the fourth paragraph. Thanks.

[vandroiy]

When you`re a spectator, you are not an umpire. Leave it it up to them. I would not want anybody "help" me with my game...

As long as no umpire sees or hears the rat or no opponent comes to the ump about it... there`s nothing to do.

[HOPPY]

If I knew both the umpires on the field and knew that the ejected coach was some way being involved with the game, yeah I'd go to the fence and ask if they realized that the ejected coach was in the stands giving signals or what ever involvment he may be into with his team, but that's the only time I'd get involved. #1 - Do I KNOW these umpires, #2 Why is this ejected coach back?

[BigUmp56]

If I knew both the umpires on the field and knew that the ejected coach was some way being involved with the game, yeah I'd go to the fence and ask if they realized that the ejected coach was in the stands giving signals or what ever involvment he may be into with his team, but that's the only time I'd get involved. #1 - Do I KNOW these umpires, #2 Why is this ejected coach back?

I think that if you know them or not you should stay out of their business. It's really not your concern if you're not working the game.


Tim.

[vandroiy]

If I knew both the umpires on the field and knew that the ejected coach was some way being involved with the game, yeah I'd go to the fence and ask if they realized that the ejected coach was in the stands giving signals or what ever involvment he may be into with his team, but that's the only time I'd get involved. #1 - Do I KNOW these umpires, #2 Why is this ejected coach back?

I think that if you know them or not you should stay out of their business. It's really not your concern if you're not working the game.


Tim.
I totally agree, as I posted before: You are a spectator, not an Umpire. Do not act like an official.

[ExCop]

If I knew both the umpires on the field and knew that the ejected coach was some way being involved with the game, yeah I'd go to the fence and ask if they realized that the ejected coach was in the stands giving signals or what ever involvment he may be into with his team, but that's the only time I'd get involved. #1 - Do I KNOW these umpires, #2 Why is this ejected coach back?

I think that if you know them or not you should stay out of their business. It's really not your concern if you're not working the game.


Tim.
I totally agree, as I posted before: You are a spectator, not an Umpire. Do not act like an official.

Maybe not, but you can act like a spectator: "Hey [make up a name of some guy you're with], wasn't that guy ejected? What's he doing coaching from behind the dugout?" in a nice, sufficiently audible spectator voice. The umpires can then, of their own accord, decide whether they want to have "heard" it and respond (or not) as they deem appropriate.

All without you having ever played the umpire card, or spoken to anyone on the field.

More than one way to skin a cat...er, rat.....[/u]

[HOPPY]

If I knew both the umpires on the field and knew that the ejected coach was some way being involved with the game, yeah I'd go to the fence and ask if they realized that the ejected coach was in the stands giving signals or what ever involvment he may be into with his team, but that's the only time I'd get involved. #1 - Do I KNOW these umpires, #2 Why is this ejected coach back?

I think that if you know them or not you should stay out of their business. It's really not your concern if you're not working the game.


Tim.I know the men I work with know that I'm not "getting into their business". I would hope they would let me know. Get rid of him, he knows he's wrong and most likely he's up to no good and possibly harmful.

[BigUmp56]

If I knew both the umpires on the field and knew that the ejected coach was some way being involved with the game, yeah I'd go to the fence and ask if they realized that the ejected coach was in the stands giving signals or what ever involvment he may be into with his team, but that's the only time I'd get involved. #1 - Do I KNOW these umpires, #2 Why is this ejected coach back?

I think that if you know them or not you should stay out of their business. It's really not your concern if you're not working the game.


Tim.I know the men I work with know that I'm not "getting into their business". I would hope they would let me know. Get rid of him, he knows he's wrong and most likely he's up to no good and possibly harmful.

Hoppy, you're missing the point. If you're not working the game it's none of your business what's going on with the rat that got dumped. You're no longer an umpire so check your umpire hat when you get to the stands to watch the game. It's kind of like being a little snitch. Stay out of it.


Tim.

[JFlores]

As soon as I saw him I'd go to his dugout and inform the coach that if his ejected partner doesn't leave immediatly the game is over.
We had a doubleheader - off season H.S. / college kids. I'm in south Florida and during the summer you can pretty much do a game or as many games as you want dayly. There's been times when we've become pretty burnt out with the heat & humidity and also a little independant. Assignors are hard to piss off if you take care of them. Anyway - We got paid for both games at the plate meeting. Two innings into the first game the head coach, who's team traveled 50 miles, gets tossed. He starts to sit behind home plate. I told his partner in the dugout he has to leave - 2 minuets of crap - he heads out. We finish the game - get a bite - change - head back to the park and who's hitting infield ? Yep the ejected coach. This wasn't Legion Ball so we said to each other the hell with this we'll just give back the secound game fee and head to the house. Well, NOBODY liked that. Coach went home ballgame was played.
Turns out these kids and parents loved it when the A.H. left. We were told he has been tossed from every game so far this season including 2 other doubleheaders in which he coached in both games each time.
Good Guys Wear Blue.

Now in a doublheader if you eject in the first game does the ejection still hold up for the second game??
I would think its new game and hence you start fresh?

[NWUmp]

If I noticed it I would go to the now-acting manager of the team of the ejected coach and tell him to go to the man and order him to leave at once and I would tell him the game will stop until the guy is gone, and oh, he will have one minute to get him going or it will be a forfeit. I would not confront or deal with the ejected man myself. I would make his assistent coach do the dirty work.

Just three days ago I made the original post about a game I was watching, and today on the field saw this again in a Legion playoff game. I was PU and my partner dumped a coach in about the 4th inning (and it was well earned), insisted on him completely leaving and being "out of sight and sound", etc. Then in the 8th inning, guess who's standing about 100 feet beyond the right field fence watching the game? And he was dressed in full uniform still - not trying to be discrete at all. My partner noticed as he was going out to right field between innings and my partner might as well have been Richard, because he handled it exactly as Richard suggested that he would handle it. Went to the acting manager, had him deal with it, and we didn't start play until he was well on his way out. Strange to see this type of situation twice in the span of a few days, but great to see my partner handle it so well.

[Richard_Siegel]

..... My partner might as well have been Richard, because he handled it exactly as Richard suggested that he would handle it. Went to the acting manager, had him deal with it, and we didn't start play until he was well on his way out. Strange to see this type of situation twice in the span of a few days, but great to see my partner handle it so well.

I think it was me!

[Richard_Siegel]

..... My partner might as well have been Richard, because he handled it exactly as Richard suggested that he would handle it. Went to the acting manager, had him deal with it, and we didn't start play until he was well on his way out. Strange to see this type of situation twice in the span of a few days, but great to see my partner handle it so well.

Seriously, I have had this happen in games where a coach was dumped early on in the game. Actually, I might not have handled this situation as your partner did.

The coach left the field when he was first ejected and he complied with your order to get out of sight and sound. Now the end of the game is near, and he reappears and begins to hover at some distant spot where he can see only the game. As long as he is not sitting in or near the bleachers, not he is not near the infield, and he is isolated and sufficiently far away where any communication with his bench is nearly impossible then you should just ignore him.

Treat it like a case where you have sent a small child to stand in the corner. You know that after a while the child will probably turn his head and peek into the room, then if he is not corrected he'll eventually turn his whole body around, but he'll probably stay there standing in the corner. The ejected coach who returned is forced to stand alone beyond the fence in the outfield is probably humiliated. He is probably very upset because he can only see what is happening but he can't get involved. He is really suffering. Isn't that what you want? It is probably a worse punishment to let him watch from afar and not be able to do anything then to be forced to sit in his car (stand facing the corner) where he can't see the game.

In these cases I have to advise you to let it go because by stopping the game and forcing an acting head coach to go out there to deal with him again you are empowering him once more. By reacting to him you are letting him affect you and the game once more. By sending the acting HC out there you are telling everyone that the ejected HC is still bothering you and isn't that exactly what he wants? Don't let him win that battle. As long as he stays out there ignore the jerk.

[Tipem]

..... My partner might as well have been Richard, because he handled it exactly as Richard suggested that he would handle it. Went to the acting manager, had him deal with it, and we didn't start play until he was well on his way out. Strange to see this type of situation twice in the span of a few days, but great to see my partner handle it so well.

Seriously, I have had this happen in games where a coach was dumped early on in the game. Actually, I might not have handled this situation as your partner did.

The coach left the field when he was first ejected and he complied with your order to get out of sight and sound. Now the end of the game is near, and he reappears and begins to hover at some distant spot where he can see only the game. As long as he is not sitting in or near the bleachers, not he is not near the infield, and he is isolated and sufficiently far away where any communication with his bench is nearly impossible then you should just ignore him.

Treat it like a case where you have sent a small child to stand in the corner. You know that after a while the child will probably turn his head and peek into the room, then if he is not corrected he'll eventually turn his whole body around, but he'll probably stay there standing in the corner. The ejected coach who returned is forced to stand alone beyond the fence in the outfield is probably humiliated. He is probably very upset because he can only see what is happening but he can't get involved. He is really suffering. Isn't that what you want? It is probably a worse punishment to let him watch from afar and not be able to do anything then to be forced to sit in his car (stand facing the corner) where he can't see the game.

In these cases I have to advise you to let it go because by stopping the game and forcing an acting head coach to go out there to deal with him again you are empowering him once more. By reacting to him you are letting him affect you and the game once more. By sending the acting HC out there you are telling everyone that the ejected HC is still bothering you and isn't that exactly what he wants? Don't let him win that battle. As long as he stays out there ignore the jerk.

I think that you have hit the nail on the head.It probably does bother him if he can see the game but not interact in any way.Ignoring him would be the best way to handle the situation as addressing him with the AC would indeed further bring attention to him as you stated.Good advice.