"That's Enough"

[lpd63]

Thanks to all of you and to Richard Siegel, in particular, for sharing your knowledge in this forum. I am sure the story that follows would have been far worse without the things I have learned from all of you...

This weekend I was BU in a 18U wood bat tournament...Visiting team HC is being pesty...nothing overt, just questioning every close call from both my partner and I. Bottom of 6th inning...0-0 tie. HC brings in a new pitcher who is having problems finding the strike zone. After several base hits and a couple of walks, the situation is this: Score is now 2-0 home team...R2 and R3 with one out. I am in the C position and batter hits a fairly sharp ground ball right at me. I step to the 3rd base side of the hit and F6 comes up to field the ball. As the ball goes by me I see F6 attempt to barehand the ball and the ball goes off his hand, strikes me in the back and then drops down between my feet. I take a step forward to allow F6 to get to the ball. No play is made and all runners safe - bases loaded. HC, from the dugout, makes several comments like "You know you can move." I ignore him until F6 says back to him..."I did move." HC then says, "I mean the other guy in your position." Next pitch has F2 throwing ball down the right field line...2 more runs score. HC comes out to change pitchers...as he is leaving the mound he looks at me and says, "You know there is not rule that says you have to stand there, you can move out of my shortstop's way." I remembered what Richard and you all said about simply saying, "That's enough." and that is what I said to the HC. He took two steps toward the dugout and then turned back and said, "You're right! That is enough...I might as well spend the rest of the game in my car in the parking lot." I gave a simple point to the parking lot and said, "OK, Coach, your gone!"

[bamatazz]

NICE JOB GARY!!!!!

[Richard_Siegel]

Gary,
I think you need to realized that by the time you said, "That's enough!" it was WAAAAAYYYY too late in the game. You wrote, "the HC is being pesty...nothing overt, just questioning every close call from both my partner and I." How the heck do you let a guy question every call? You should have given him the "That's enough!" line after the SECOND time he questioned anything. Had you done that he probably would have either shut-up or got himself tossed on the THIRD gripe. Then the rest of your game would have been much better.

As long as you believe and accept any kind of repeated quesitoning of calls as "nothing overt," you're going have trouble. Chirping is IS overt!!! Snuff out the chirping on the SECOND chirp. It will establish who is in charge early in the game and it will force the idiots to either shut-up now or it will put them on notice that they'll be tossed on the next gripe.

[lpd63]

Thanks, Richard...You are right...I should have acted sooner...Thanks for the great advice.

[ricka56]

And if HC could have a conversation with you during his trip to the mound, then you were too close to the mound. Whenever coach comes out for a conference, and especially after a play that displeased him, you should move away from B/C and stand behind 2B...don't give him a chance to start-up.

[Richard_Siegel]

And if HC could have a conversation with you during his trip to the mound, then you were too close to the mound. Whenever coach comes out for a conference, and especially after a play that displeased him, you should move away from B/C and stand behind 2B...don't give him a chance to start-up.

A very good point! I go to the back of the dirt and I even look down so they can't see my eyes so they can't make eye contact. I tip my head down so the brim of my cap is tipped down just far enough so can see their feet, so I know when they're walking away.

[archipelligo]

Move around some blue, you're killing the grass.

[tcarilli]

...I even look down so they can't see my eyes.

I would advise against this because it is weak body language. The biggest part of game management is field presence. Looking down at the ground when the coach is on your field is body language that cedes control of the field to him. If the coach wants to make eye contact and say anything to me about some call he doesn't like, I'll inform him that he shan't be doing that.

[charliej47]

:lol: Richard, One of the dings I got was looking down at a NCAA clinic. The instructor stated "You look through the coach until he gives you a reason to look at him. He is part of the background. You should always be pleasent and polite, but firm and definite." It took me several years to accept the fact that I could smile, be polite and tell a coach to go find his car and move on with the game.

[Keefj200]

As long as you believe and accept any kind of repeated quesitoning of calls as "nothing overt," you're going have trouble. Chirping is IS overt!!! Snuff out the chirping on the SECOND chirp. It will establish who is in charge early in the game and it will force the idiots to either shut-up now or it will put them on notice that they'll be tossed on the next gripe.

I took the above quote from Richard as Gospel. After the 2nd chirp I told the coach we would not argue balls and strikes. After a banger at first, the coach said, "You guys must have somewhere to go." The other coach yelled, "Come on, be fair." I see two different things going on during this short rant. One is the discussion of balls and strikes and the other is we are cheating his team. I warned the coaches concerning both of these issues. I do take the cheating chirping very seriously, even if the coaches do not. These coaches are simply voicing rhetorical comments they've heard through the years. I truly do not mind discussions as long as they are civil. Chirping from the bench is neither a discussion nor civil.

[Dano]

As for me..

If I am BU, and in B/C, and coach comes to mound, I will turn around, walk into the dirt on the infield (or basepaths if infield is all dirt) turn around and look very disinterested.

If Coach has something to say to me, he is going to have to make a very concerted effort.

[Richard_Siegel]

As long as you believe and accept any kind of repeated quesitoning of calls as "nothing overt," you're going have trouble. Chirping is IS overt!!! Snuff out the chirping on the SECOND chirp. It will establish who is in charge early in the game and it will force the idiots to either shut-up now or it will put them on notice that they'll be tossed on the next gripe.

I took the above quote from Richard as Gospel. After the 2nd chirp I told the coach we would not argue balls and strikes. After a banger at first, the coach said, "You guys must have somewhere to go." The other coach yelled, "Come on, be fair." I see two different things going on during this short rant. One is the discussion of balls and strikes and the other is we are cheating his team. I warned the coaches concerning both of these issues. I do take the cheating chirping very seriously, even if the coaches do not. These coaches are simply voicing rhetorical comments they've heard through the years. I truly do not mind discussions as long as they are civil. Chirping from the bench is neither a discussion nor civil.

The proper warning is to simply say, "Steve, That's Enough!" It is simple and to the point. I suggest that you do not warn a coach using a phrase like, "we would not argue balls and strikes." Two things I don't like about it:

#1) Saying "We would not argue ...." By using the word "we" you are implying that you would engage along with him is an argument. A subtle point, but umpires do not argue. Umpires give orders, answer questions, and explain rules. We do not argue.

The other thing I don't like is specifying, "we would not argue balls and strikes." Why limit him to just that? By using this phrase you are implying that he may no longer argue balls and strikes, but arguing other situations is still allowed. Blue, "you never said I could not ask if you had someplace to go!"

In my opinion that kind of phrase is weak compared to simply saying, "Steve, That's Enough!" Notice, I include the coach's first name. Another subtle point. However, it is also a powerful tool. Always use the coach's first name when giving him orders. It is a subconscious thing that communicates to the coach your authoritive position. When a coach realizes you know his name he is much more likely to listen to you! "That's Enough!" is an overall warning. It covers everything. It leaves nothing to the imagination, no loop-holes. It is powerful in it's simplicity.

I really hate "warnings" like "Coach, we're not going argue balls and strikes, today!" Do you really mean that? Are you going allow arguing balls and strikes, tomorrow? Did you allow arguing balls and strikes, yesterday?

There are so many weak subtle messages we convey in our words unintetionally when we say too much. KISS

[semperfiguy]

I got your back Gary. Well done. Maybe he learneda thing or two. Patience is a virtue, but it is not a requirement.

[cyclone]

I put the "That's Enough" method to the test last night..

Bottom 7th, 2 out in a LL Jrs close game. 2 strikes on batter. Pitch is way inside and batter twirls out of box to avoid...well the bat twirls with him moving in towards his body. Ball hits his hands. I've got no attempt to offer.. "TIME, He's HIT" and send him to 1st. Defensive coaches of course are upset and want the strike...

"Coach he didn't offer, he was bailing out."

Bickering now yelling continues from coaches getting louder..

"Coach he didn't offer, he was bailing out."

Yelling continues

"That's Enough"

Bickering from one continues...."Your gone coach"..

Coach leaves, Bickering ends....next batter strikes out...

Game..

[umpjmb]

It's amazing how, when you draw the line and a coach goes ever, if you will then DO YOUR JOB and EJ, things seem to calm down.

The biggest problem umpires create for themselves is when they draw that line, and then don't enforce it. That proverbial "line in the sand"-- the one that keeps moving-- will just make your life miserable. Once you've told a coach "that's enough", mean it!

[archipelligo]

You guys are doing great, but its 'you're gone' not 'your gone' This will be important when you write your memoirs.

[KenGibes]

Arch is right... it will be very important when your writing yore memoirs about umpiring in days of you're.

[cyclone]

Dang, I can't believe I did that.... :oops:

That's enough.... :twisted: