2 EJs after the game

[mississippiump]

Okay guys,

I've had all week to think about my last post and what an arrogent ass I was. My apologies. I ate the crow, took the advice and had a sooner than expected chance to apply my newly gained wisdom (thanks LawUmp in particular)!!!!

12U USSSA Mississippi State Tournament. My first game of the tournament and I'm BU. Tension are high of course and I draw two evenly matched teams. I had two bangers @ first as the second out of double plays, The first one was close, almost a tie, I bang the out and the HC comes out to discuss the play. I listened to what he said, then I told him what I saw. He continued to "discuss" how his player had gotten to the bag before. . . . I interjected with, "coach, I explained to you what I saw, We are on a time limit and I need to get the game going". He continued, I said "Coach, I'm not changing my call, I need you to go back to your dugout (he was HC but not 3B Coach) so we can get the game going. He complied!!!!! All was going ok except for the 4 balks I called on his pitcher for the SAME thing!!!!! The rule says a "discernable stop" coach. . . . Anyway, it's a tight game and relativily quiet, then I had another banger for a 2nd out to a double play. This one was not as close and I banged him out. A few words were murmured but nothing serious. The game is over on a called 3rd strike, I'm in C position and I walk to shake the PU hand after the game. As I do, the 3B Coach (Assistant Coach) lights into me about how I suck, and I'm the worst umpire he's ever seen and I choked and I cheated his kids. Game is over but I eject him anyway. He laughs at me and says, "you can't throw me out, the games over" I respond, "but that doesn't mean you get a free shot at me just because the game is over"(I stole this line frim LawUmp) We walk out & as we're walking out, the HC starts popping off about how I suck, So he gets dumped too!!! He followed me and the UIC met him and calmed him down. Anyway, the TD and UIC have suspended these two coaches for the next game!!!! Sweet justice!!!

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I'm open for criticism. I think I've included all the important facts.

Jerry

[3appleshigh]

Sounds like you handled it well, the HC may have earned an earlier ticket for not listening to you say that things are done, but I have no real issues with the way you handled it. Simply put since it was a judgement call on a safe out that he was argueing the hangman's rope can and probably should be shorter. Consider it the same type of conversation as the coach coming out to discuss balls and strikes. Since it was an important game, the rope can be stretched a bit. Good job kept cool, still got the ejections. Gotta love it.

[Mike Goble]

I wait until we're in the parking lot to congratulate my partner on a well called game. After the last out is made grab your partner(s) and get out of Dodge, shake hands later. The longer you stay on the field after the game, the longer you have for an incident.

[MNBlue17]

Yeah, Mike's right. Get outta there in a hurry, you'll see your partner in the lot and talk to him on the way there anyway.

[mississippiump]

There is a funny side note to this story. I found out Saturday morning when I got to the field that the USSSA State Director allowed the head coach that was suspended to be a spectator for the following game. He caused a scene and he AND his wife had to be removed from that game as well, by police escort none the less!!!!

Jerry

[lawump]

Good job...only thing I would add is...when the final out is made in a game...get off the field. Don't leave the field without your partner, (if you beat him to the gate you may have to wait for him), but, otherwise, get off the field as fast as you can. (No shaking hands on the field!)

Of course if you get (verbally) assaulted as your leaving the field: toss 'em.

But don't ever shake hands on the field. Don't take the time to do it. Just get out of there.

At least you didn't try to shake hands with players and/or coaches after the game as some here in the past have stated they have done.

[lawump]

There is a funny side note to this story. I found out Saturday morning when I got to the field that the USSSA State Director allowed the head coach that was suspended to be a spectator for the following game. He caused a scene and he AND his wife had to be removed from that game as well, by police escort none the less!!!!

Jerry

"State Director" (I use the term loosely) needs to be taken to the woodshed and shot.

[mississippiump]

It's all about the money with this guy!!! Two more spectators equals $$$!!!

[vandroiy]

Around here, 99% of the time coaches come to shake the hands of the Umpires, because they are thankfull somebody is doing it, and because they know we will be coming back and they want to be friends, not enemies then ;)

Influencing Umpires during, before and after the game is a part of the Coaches Job, as it is ours to call what we see.

But I got no problem with some coach coming up to shake my hands...and on the day I regularly have to think about getting away from the field as fast as possible, I`m done with Umpiring.

[mississippiump]

That does bring up an interesting question. I never seek out a coach to shake their hands, but I won't deny them shaking mine. What are you supposed to do, I've never really thought about it much, I've just always tried to get the heck off of the field, I do usually meet up with my partner so we can walk out together though.

Jerry

[lawump]

Shake a coaches hand if they seek you out. Do not go looking for one. Do not stand at home plate with your partner and watch the teams shake hands.

[mississippiump]

What really sux about some of the games I call (USSSA) is that the coaches supply the baseballs and you have to give them back to them after the game. I think what I will start doing if I'm the PU is set all the baseballs on home plate, get the heck out of there and let the coaches fight over the balls.

Jerry

[Richard_Siegel]

What really sux about some of the games I call (USSSA) is that the coaches supply the baseballs and you have to give them back to them after the game. I think what I will start doing if I'm the PU is set all the baseballs on home plate, get the heck out of there and let the coaches fight over the balls.

Jerry

That's right - drop the balls and go. After a crappy game if the timing is right and it is on my way off the field I will just toss the balls into the vacated team's dugout after the players have all come out to shake hands at the plate. Otherwise, I just drop them on the ground in the grass about halfway between the mound and HP. If you drop them near HP the players will kick them all around when the shake hands.

[LMan]

Awwwwww, Jerry.....now "CoachBob" won't like you annnnnnny more. :lol:

[LMan]

Shake a coaches hand if they seek you out. Do not go looking for one. Do not stand at home plate with your partner and watch the teams shake hands.


If a coach can even see me in the vicinity of the field after ~1 minute of game's end, I have failed.

[mississippiump]

Coach who???? Is there a RAT on this forum??

Jerry

[BigUmp56]

Shake a coaches hand if they seek you out. Do not go looking for one. Do not stand at home plate with your partner and watch the teams shake hands.


If a coach can even see me in the vicinity of the field after ~1 minute of game's end, I have failed.

Not me. I have to stay and wait for my voucher for a hot dog and a coke at the snack stand. That and the obligatory pat on the back from all participants for a job well done.


Tim. :roll:

[LMan]

Shake a coaches hand if they seek you out. Do not go looking for one. Do not stand at home plate with your partner and watch the teams shake hands.


If a coach can even see me in the vicinity of the field after ~1 minute of game's end, I have failed.

Not me. I have to stay and wait for my voucher for a hot dog and a coke at the snack stand. That and the obligatory pat on the back from all participants for a job well done.


Tim. :roll:


voucher? 8O Sounds serious. Do you have to put that on your 1099? :wink:


I just go into the stand and collect my grub, and hit the trail. My check will show in the mail in a couple of days 8)

What really sux about some of the games I call (USSSA) is that the coaches supply the baseballs and you have to give them back to them after the game. I think what I will start doing if I'm the PU is set all the baseballs on home plate, get the heck out of there and let the coaches fight over the balls.

Jerry

Even worse than the teams supplying the balls (which can be dropped on the mound) is my association's practice of the teams paying the umps o the field. We're supposed to get the money before the first pitch, but 8 times out of 10, "My wife has the checkbook, and she'll be here any minute."

I hate having to ask the managers for the money during the game. I intensely dislike the way it looks when they hand me a check between innings.

But the worst ever is having to ask the losing coach, after the game, to pony up the game fee. I only wish the association would collect the fees and then send me the checks.

[BigUmp56]

Even worse than the teams supplying the balls (which can be dropped on the mound) is my association's practice of the teams paying the umps o the field. We're supposed to get the money before the first pitch, but 8 times out of 10, "My wife has the checkbook, and she'll be here any minute."

I hate having to ask the managers for the money during the game. I intensely dislike the way it looks when they hand me a check between innings.

But the worst ever is having to ask the losing coach, after the game, to pony up the game fee. I only wish the association would collect the fees and then send me the checks.

I'll tell you how I handle this after being burned several times early in my career. If a manager tells me the check is "on the way", I just tell them I'll wait until it's here before the ball gets put into play. Keep it simple, get your $$$ at the plate conference or don't start the game until you do get it.

Tim.

[Toolman]

the problem I ran into with the coaches wanting to shake hands after the game is the come up real friendly only to give you a "you missed that call at first blue" and then walk off. Getting that last cheap shot in but nothing you can really toss em for. No more for me. I just say thanks as I'm walking off the field, if they wanna say nice things, don't even look em in the eye anymore. Don't half believe em anyhow!

[mississippiump]

Toolman,

That happened to me last weekend and I have to confess that I let my tounge slip. I had a banger at 1B to end the game, the loosing coach comes up to me to shake my hand and says something like, "I thought you did good the whole game until that last call and you really blew it, I'm sorry you had to end our game like that!!!" Like the 7 runs against his starting pitcher didn't get him beat, it was MY fault. Anyway, he said that and I responded with, "yeah well, I thought you had some class then you go and show your true colors, maybe we were both wrong!!!" I know I should not have said that, but I couldn't help it.

Jerry

[Roger]

I know I should not have said that...

Hey, I was just filing that one away for future use. :)

[fontizzle]

All was going ok except for the 4 balks I called on his pitcher for the SAME thing!!!!! The rule says a "discernable stop" coach.



With this situation, a veteran umpire in my association told me that this is how he deals with this particular balk situation. When he first told me about this I did not like this at all, then used it, and it works! I want to see what everyone else says about this as well.

If the opposing team's coach does not complain about it by the end of the inning go to the manager and pitcher at the same time and say something like, "Coach, your pitcher is not coming to a stop when he comes set, this is something that I am going to have to call if it continues to happen." When I did this for the first time, the pitcher had not stopped on just about every one of his pitches with runners on in the first, after this conference, I balked him only once the rest of the game, he nodded, and the coach had no beef because he knew what had happened. I think that this is a great game management tool, but do not know if everyone else would agree on this way to handle this situation, want to hear some other opinions on this as well. By the way, I have used this on few occasions since I have learned it and I have not had any problems with it yet. Waiting patiently for some flaming... :lol:

[mississippiump]

fontizzle,

I think another good way in dealing with a kid who balks is to actually call the balk!!! Then when the coach or manager asks what his pitcher did, explain it to him. If he complains too much you can deal with it then.

I think in trying your technique, obviously depending on the level of play, is coddling these players too much. If you're gonna umpire, the do just that, umpire, don't try to babysit.

Jerry

[mississippiump]

fontizzle,

A friendly word of advice, you're gonna get lit up on this forum with posts like that. If we as umpires are waiting on a coach to complain about something before we call it, then we are not really needed. You're there to umpire, not win a popularity contest.

Jerry

[fontizzle]

Jerry,
That is my whole point about this though, I was always like, "I'm just going to call it," but this guy that told me this is just like all of you not into babying players and such, was a pro umpire and everything, I didn't believe it til' I did it. This is the only kind of balk that I do it for, as does he, which is why I have done it.

[Roger]

Maybe I shouldn't even do this, but on a few occasions I have observed a pitcher doing things during his warmup that would be balks. If the coach is neaby, I have casually said, "Hey coach, that would be a balk with runners on base because he ________" The coach will usually thank me and then say something to the pitcher. But once the inning starts, if I see it happen, I just call it regardless of whether I mentioned it previously.