Coach says "You blew the call."

[Dean]

Eject, confine to bench or do nothing :?:

[sargee7]

Did you blow the call? Need more information.

[ShoNuff]

Eject, confine to bench or do nothing :?:

If the coach is right, you've got nothing. Suck it up and get the rest of them right.

[Dean]

If the coach is right, you've got nothing. Suck it up and get the rest of them right.
OK, Judgment call not rules interp. As for missing the call I would say no - and at least half of the teams playing agreed :wink:

I know someone once posted that Coaches never use the "You" word - kinda like drawing a line in the sand.

[lawump]

Probably just a warning. He used "you", but he's really just arguing the call. He's not attacking you. He's attacking your call.

If he says, "you blow...," however, that's another story.

If a manager/head coach came out and as he was jogging out started his argument with, "you blew that call. There is no way he was tagged before he reached the base, the tag was on his lower back...", I probably would do nothing at that point, except listen to what he has to say.

[Kato]

I had a coach basically tell me I blew a call in a game last night. Truth be told, I probably did blow it. He said to me, "you know, that runner beat the throw by a full stride". Now, he certainly didn't beat the throw by anywhere near a full stride, but he might possibly have beat the throw. I said, "I just call what I see". And he said, almost sympathetically, "I know", and nodded. He was probably right, I was probably wrong, we both knew it, and we both knew we had to go on with the game and let it go.

and I can tell you, I feel worse about that blown call than I would have felt if he had been the least bit challenging.

[Roger]

9.02
(a) Any umpire’s decision which involves judgment, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decisions.


In the spirit of the OP, I am exploring the question of at what point objection to a judgement call becomes ejectable. As worded in 9.02(a), objecting to a judgment call is not allowed. It doesn't say, "...unless it becomes personal..." or "... unless the coach says, 'you,' ..." But in practice, we do allow some venting. Just how much tolerance each umpire has for this venting or objecting seems to vary greatly. I am currently on a "personal quest" to define where to draw the line. To that end, for each of the following, would you ignore / warn / eject?

1. Batted ball to F5. Close play at first. I call BR out. Third base coach calls out to first base coach, "What did you see?" First base coach shakes his head in disgust and throws his arms out in the "Safe" signal.

2. Coach argues every close call that goes against his team and keeps a running talley of calls he believes you missed by looking at you and holding up his fingers and vebalizing "That's one [you missed]"; "that's two"; "that's three"; etc.

3. Coach [to F2]: "Where was that pitch?" [that I called a 'ball']
F2: "On the corner."

4. Score tied, we're in extra innings. I call a ball on an inside pitch. Defensive coach yells, "Aw come on, Blue, don't tighten up on me now."

5. Bases loaded, one out, infield playing shallow. Very high fly ball. I call "IFF!" just as ball reaches apex. F5 makes poor, unsuccessful attempt to catch. Ball lands about ten feet from 3B on the line between 3B and 2B. R3 goes as soon as ball hits the dirt. F5 picks up the ball, throws to F2 for an easy tag 15 feet from the plate. Third out. Manager comes out loudly arguing against the IFF call.

Any thoughts? Need more detail?

[lawump]

I am exploring the question of at what point objection to a judgement call becomes ejectable. As worded in 9.02(a), objecting to a judgment call is not allowed. It doesn't say, "...unless it becomes personal..." or "... unless the coach says, 'you,' ..." But in practice, we do allow some venting. Just how much tolerance each umpire has for this venting or objecting seems to vary greatly. I am currently on a "personal quest" to define where to draw the line. To that end, for each of the following, would you ignore / warn / eject?

There is no magic formula. Learning how to "draw the line," and how to handle non-routine situations in a game are what separate a good umpire from a very good or excellent umpire.

With that said, here are my thoughts on each of the following. (I have assumed that these all involve shaving age players (tm) ).

1. Batted ball to F5. Close play at first. I call BR out. Third base coach calls out to first base coach, "What did you see?" First base coach shakes his head in disgust and throws his arms out in the "Safe" signal.

If this is it (i.e. neither coach says nothing directly to you, and nothing further occurs) then I probably do nothing at this point but make a mental note.

2. Coach argues every close call that goes against his team and keeps a running talley of calls he believes you missed by looking at you and holding up his fingers and vebalizing "That's one [you missed]"; "that's two"; "that's three"; etc.

After "That's one": I give a glare. After "that's two": I would say "that's enough!" After "that's three": ejection.

3. Coach [to F2]: "Where was that pitch?" [that I called a 'ball']
F2: "On the corner."

Me to catcher (quietly and without drawing attention to myself): "Let me tell you something, if you sell me out to your coach again like that, you and your pitcher are both going to have a very long night, understand?

4. Score tied, we're in extra innings. I call a ball on an inside pitch. Defensive coach yells, "Aw come on, Blue, don't tighten up on me now."

Its a tense point in the game. If they've been fine to this point, ignore this.

5. Bases loaded, one out, infield playing shallow. Very high fly ball. I call IFF! just as ball reaches apex. F5 makes poor, unsuccessful attempt to catch. Ball lands about ten feet from 3B on the line between 3B and 2B. R3 goes as soon as ball hits the dirt. F5 picks up the ball, throws to F2 for an easy tag 15 feet from the plate. Third out. Manager comes out loudly arguing against the IFF call.

Not enough information. Managers, by tradition, have a right to come out and argue. Sometimes they're loud. This is not enough info. to determine what I'd do as an umpire...it really depends on what was said. If they're just arguing the call, at this point, I'd listen to them and tell them, at the appropriate point why I called the IFF, and then go from there.

[Roger]

Thanks for the answers, Lawump. Age range is 13-14.

Not enough information.

Coach was saying, "I'm also an umpire and I know the IFF rule. That ball landed 15 feet away from my fielder. There's no way he could have caught it. You should not have called that an IFF. " I tell him, "Coach, whether or not it was catchable with ordinary effort by an infielder is a judgment call that I need to make while the ball is in flight, not after I see where it lands. In my judgment, this was a textbook example of an IFF and I would call it the same way every time." Coach then basically repeated the "it landed 15 feet away" reasoning a couple more times and I just let him talk without responding.

[lawump]

Thanks for the answers, Lawump. Age range is 13-14.

Not enough information.

Coach was saying, "I'm also an umpire and I know the IFF rule. That ball landed 15 feet away from my fielder. There's no way he could have caught it. You should not have called that an IFF. " I tell him, "Coach, whether or not it was catchable with ordinary effort by an infielder is a judgment call that I need to make while the ball is in flight, not after I see where it lands. In my judgment, this was a textbook example of an IFF and I would call it the same way every time." Coach then basically repeated the "it landed 15 feet away" reasoning a couple more times and I just let him talk without responding.
If he walked away, with nothing further, then there is nothing more you need to do.

[RollerBowler]

Roger....in the last scenario...whether or not it "landed 15 ft away" I would politely and calmly use the magic words saying...."in my judgment." After all it is a judgment call on your part...you did say that ...to the coach and from that point coachy has no further points to make.

You gave him his 20 seconds.....he gives you 20 seconds.....play on!!!! Time to walk away....if he follows....now you warn....if he continues....now you toss!!!

[3appleshigh]

I am exploring the question of at what point objection to a judgement call becomes ejectable. As worded in 9.02(a), objecting to a judgment call is not allowed. It doesn't say, "...unless it becomes personal..." or "... unless the coach says, 'you,' ..." But in practice, we do allow some venting. Just how much tolerance each umpire has for this venting or objecting seems to vary greatly. I am currently on a "personal quest" to define where to draw the line. To that end, for each of the following, would you ignore / warn / eject?


1. Batted ball to F5. Close play at first. I call BR out. Third base coach calls out to first base coach, "What did you see?" First base coach shakes his head in disgust and throws his arms out in the "Safe" signal.

BINGO - A coach stands not 5 to ten feet from you and MAKES a Safe Signal, after the call, after being asked his opinion by someone else from his team - he is showing you up, send him home. His job is to tell people to turn left that is all.

2. Coach argues every close call that goes against his team and keeps a running talley of calls he believes you missed by looking at you and holding up his fingers and vebalizing "That's one [you missed]"; "that's two"; "that's three"; etc.

After "That's one": I give a glare, maybe a warning, "We don't count here coach." After "that's two": I'm probably sending him home, I would be afraid that the poor coach would not have the mental capacity to count to three.

3. Coach [to F2]: "Where was that pitch?" [that I called a 'ball']
F2: "On the corner."

I agree talk to the catcher about his stupidity;.

4. Score tied, we're in extra innings. I call a ball on an inside pitch. Defensive coach yells, "Aw come on, Blue, don't tighten up on me now."

I got no issues with theis at all.

5. Bases loaded, one out, infield playing shallow. Very high fly ball. I call IFF! just as ball reaches apex. F5 makes poor, unsuccessful attempt to catch. Ball lands about ten feet from 3B on the line between 3B and 2B. R3 goes as soon as ball hits the dirt. F5 picks up the ball, throws to F2 for an easy tag 15 feet from the plate. Third out. Manager comes out loudly arguing against the IFF call.

He will have his time to argue, I will give him the "In my judgement..." and then if he gets to the profane, prolonged or personal, he goes home.