Moving from the "stands" to the dugout

No, I didn't actually do anything about it ... should I have? This is more of a vent, actually.

9U USSSA so-called "select" mid-week DH. I'm PU on a city-rec field. Short fences, dugout "cutout" in the fence is about 10 feet long. Parents in lawn chairs right behind the fence, etc.

1st games goes well - well played, close score, no chirping at all.

About halfway through the second game, dad-in-the-lawn-chair (DITLC) (who's wearing a team jersey and helped warm up the team before the game) evidently goes into nicotine withdrawal.

He starts in with "you're squeezing us, blue" and "I can't believe you called that a strike" etc. My favorite: "He called that a ball three times in a row, and NOW it's a strike?" Well, yes... the fourth pitch was below the numbers, instead of above the shoulders!

DITLC is also near the dugout between innings, helping F2 with his gear, talking with the coaches, etc. During the innings, he's in his chair, and he has something to say about half the calls.

I know I didn't hear everything he said, and I don't think I changed anything about how I was calling the game. (But didn't Carl Childress write an article about rattling an umpire once?)

Anyway ... coach and bench are not a problem.

An inning later, DITLC team in the field.

Bases loaded, no outs. Dribbler to F4, throw to 1B for an easy out. F3 throws to 3B just as R2 slides in. BU calls the out, but his left arm is up in the air.

Time! 3B coach wants the obstruction call. I was watching R3 cross home and following the ball, so I didn't see anything. BU clearly had OBS, though: he saw R2 and F6 collide, then dance as they tried to untangle. He even called it when it happened, just used the wrong mechanic to signal it.

So safe at 3B ... easy call. Let's move on.

DITLC says, "YGTBSM" without the abbreviations. "Come on, blue, let the kids play." and to the 3B coach "You want some cheese with that wine?"

Play on ... until the same runner steals home (F1 throwing from a windup ... it was beautiful). Safe - F2 simply didn't make the tag. D Coach calmly asks, "Was that batter interference?" One point for knowing the right term ... but no, it wasn't. No argument at all from the coach

DITLC says, loud enough for me to hear but not shouting, "You F#$^%g suck."

OK, no biggie... he's a spectator. And his team is winning by something like 11-3.

Next pitch, a ball, I hear a child's voice: "You're horrible!" It didn't sound like it came from the dugout/bench area, and when I take a quick glance, it doesn't seem to have come from there.

So here's the question: Should I have taken that moment to talk with the coach about the spectator's language and attitude? What should be done when a spectator's "chirping" bleeds into the dugout?

Final inning, time limit's up, DITLC team is batting (they're home) and now the score is running away (visitors are "demoralized" - hey, they're 9 years old and tired!). Bases loaded. F2 deflects a pitch which rolls a foot or so out the cutout in the fence. I see it, but choose to ignore it. DITLC is up and complaining about it being a dead ball, shouldn't we get some bases? I hear the coach tell him, "Yeah, but he didn't see it. Let it go." I turned to the coach and said, "Actually, I did see it, but the catcher could reach the ball without leaving the field. And I didn't figure you needed another run."

Coach and DITLC are now both very apologetic, hands up in the air, "Oh, no, that's alright. That's a GREAT call."

Jerks.

I feel better. Thanks.

[sargee7]

"Yeah, but he didn't see it. Let it go." I turned to the coach and said, "Actually, I did see it, but the catcher could reach the ball without leaving the field. And I didn't figure you needed another run."

Bad reply, not good for credibility. Whether you saw it or not, ignore them.

DITLC is a jerk but don't address it with the coaches, there are not responsible for the spectators. If there are any administration members there, give it to them and ask them to remove the jerk. If it gets to bad, put the kids in the dugout and refuse to start again until he calms down or is removed.

One thing you can do , if this jerk is talking to the coaches or the players, or is assisting in equipment changes, tell the coaches not to let it happen. He's a spectator and has no right to be on the field or near the players during the game.

[Richard_Siegel]

If the DITLC was on the field before the game hitting BP and wearing a jersey, he is a coach. Even if he takes a seat in a lawn chair now and speaks to players in the DO he is still a coach. Use it to your advantage and treat him like one. Eject him when he starts up with the comments.

If he was really just another stupid spectator, then stop the game and have the HC deal with him. I would not let anyone stay in the bleachers at that kind of game after an F-bomb. The HC would have to get him out of there. When I'm doing a HS State Tournament game in a Minor league stadium with 1500 people watching with security around I would let it go.

Never admit you openly ignored a rule. If the team is winning by a lopsided score then one more run is meaningless, so take the high road and do your job right. Nobody will bug you for making the right call in that situation. Never give anyone evidence you will ignore the rules.

[SJC_Blue]

I'm wondering - if there was OBS at a slide into 3B, why was the runner not awarded home? Am I missing something?

[Richard_Siegel]

I'm wondering - if there was OBS at a slide into 3B, why was the runner not awarded home? Am I missing something?

The OBS was a collision between the runner and F6 mid-bases. Not on the slide. Even so this is type-b OBS and the runner gets the base, in the umpire's judgment, he would have gotten had there been no OBS. He gets one base beyond the base he last legally touched, which was 2B. If the runner could have made HP with no OBS he could be awarded there. But from the sound of the play, I think 3B was the right award.

[LMan]

If the DITLC was on the field before the game hitting BP and wearing a jersey, he is a coach. Even if he takes a seat in a lawn chair now and speaks to players in the DO he is still a coach. Use it to your advantage and treat him like one. Eject him when he starts up with the comments.

If he was really just another stupid spectator, then stop the game and have the HC deal with him. I would not let anyone stay in the bleachers at that kind of game after an F-bomb. The HC would have to get him out of there. When I'm doing a HS State Tournament game in a Minor league stadium with 1500 people watching with security around I would let it go.



Great points. This idiot (even if you consider him a spec and not a coach) gave you the perfect opportunity to throw him out by dropping a F-bomb in a 9U tourney. You had the chance right there to remove him and enjoy a better game (as well as earn the undying gratitude of his fellow specs).

Since he's really a coach, right then you tell his HC that he goes, or nothing happens. If the HC wont do it, the TD will.

[ShoNuff]

No, I didn't actually do anything about it ... should I have? This is more of a vent, actually.

9U USSSA so-called "select" mid-week DH. I'm PU on a city-rec field. Short fences, dugout "cutout" in the fence is about 10 feet long. Parents in lawn chairs right behind the fence, etc.

1st games goes well - well played, close score, no chirping at all.

About halfway through the second game, dad-in-the-lawn-chair (DITLC) (who's wearing a team jersey and helped warm up the team before the game) evidently goes into nicotine withdrawal.

He starts in with "you're squeezing us, blue" and "I can't believe you called that a strike" etc. My favorite: "He called that a ball three times in a row, and NOW it's a strike?" Well, yes... the fourth pitch was below the numbers, instead of above the shoulders!

DITLC is also near the dugout between innings, helping F2 with his gear, talking with the coaches, etc. During the innings, he's in his chair, and he has something to say about half the calls.

I know I didn't hear everything he said, and I don't think I changed anything about how I was calling the game. (But didn't Carl Childress write an article about rattling an umpire once?)

Anyway ... coach and bench are not a problem.

An inning later, DITLC team in the field.

Bases loaded, no outs. Dribbler to F4, throw to 1B for an easy out. F3 throws to 3B just as R2 slides in. BU calls the out, but his left arm is up in the air.

Time! 3B coach wants the obstruction call. I was watching R3 cross home and following the ball, so I didn't see anything. BU clearly had OBS, though: he saw R2 and F6 collide, then dance as they tried to untangle. He even called it when it happened, just used the wrong mechanic to signal it.

So safe at 3B ... easy call. Let's move on.

DITLC says, "YGTBSM" without the abbreviations. "Come on, blue, let the kids play." and to the 3B coach "You want some cheese with that wine?"

Play on ... until the same runner steals home (F1 throwing from a windup ... it was beautiful). Safe - F2 simply didn't make the tag. D Coach calmly asks, "Was that batter interference?" One point for knowing the right term ... but no, it wasn't. No argument at all from the coach

DITLC says, loud enough for me to hear but not shouting, "You F#$^%g suck."

OK, no biggie... he's a spectator. And his team is winning by something like 11-3.

Next pitch, a ball, I hear a child's voice: "You're horrible!" It didn't sound like it came from the dugout/bench area, and when I take a quick glance, it doesn't seem to have come from there.

So here's the question: Should I have taken that moment to talk with the coach about the spectator's language and attitude? What should be done when a spectator's "chirping" bleeds into the dugout?

Final inning, time limit's up, DITLC team is batting (they're home) and now the score is running away (visitors are "demoralized" - hey, they're 9 years old and tired!). Bases loaded. F2 deflects a pitch which rolls a foot or so out the cutout in the fence. I see it, but choose to ignore it. DITLC is up and complaining about it being a dead ball, shouldn't we get some bases? I hear the coach tell him, "Yeah, but he didn't see it. Let it go." I turned to the coach and said, "Actually, I did see it, but the catcher could reach the ball without leaving the field. And I didn't figure you needed another run."

Coach and DITLC are now both very apologetic, hands up in the air, "Oh, no, that's alright. That's a GREAT call."

Jerks.

I feel better. Thanks.

Hummm...."About halfway through the second game, dad-in-the-lawn-chair (DITLC) (who's wearing a team jersey and helped warm up the team before the game)", and later, "DITLC is also near the dugout between innings, helping F2 with his gear, talking with the coaches, etc. During the innings, he's in his chair, and he has something to say about half the calls."

This may have all been avoided by PDITLCAID (Placing Dad In Lawn Chair's A$$ In Dugout) as another coach. If DITLC says he's a spectator, leave him where he is. When he becomes a problem, instruct the coach to remove him from the confines of the field and that play will continue when this is accomplished. Do it early. Make it stop. Enjoy the rest of the game.

"I turned to the coach and said, "Actually, I did see it, but the catcher could reach the ball without leaving the field. And I didn't figure you needed another run."

What were you trying to accomplish with that remark?

Great points. This idiot (even if you consider him a spec and not a coach) gave you the perfect opportunity to throw him out by dropping a F-bomb in a 9U tourney. You had the chance right there to remove him and enjoy a better game (as well as earn the undying gratitude of his fellow specs).

Since he's really a coach, right then you tell his HC that he goes, or nothing happens. If the HC wont do it, the TD will.

I don't know how much it matters, but this was a mid-week game, not a tourney. No league administrators within 15 miles of the ball field.

I'm fascinated by the number of people saying "Toss the bum" when all I've seen on this and other boards is "Get thicker skin" and "The spectators are beyond the ump's authority."

If I had it to do over again, given it was 9U, I'd probably tell the head coach/manager to get th parent under control, especially once the F-bomb went off.

Live and learn.

Hummm...."About halfway through the second game, dad-in-the-lawn-chair (DITLC) (who's wearing a team jersey and helped warm up the team before the game)", and later, "DITLC is also near the dugout between innings, helping F2 with his gear, talking with the coaches, etc. During the innings, he's in his chair, and he has something to say about half the calls."

This may have all been avoided by PDITLCAID (Placing Dad In Lawn Chair's A$$ In Dugout) as another coach. If DITLC says he's a spectator, leave him where he is. When he becomes a problem, instruct the coach to remove him from the confines of the field and that play will continue when this is accomplished. Do it early. Make it stop. Enjoy the rest of the game.

"I turned to the coach and said, "Actually, I did see it, but the catcher could reach the ball without leaving the field. And I didn't figure you needed another run."

What were you trying to accomplish with that remark?

Two additional points:
calling it a "dugout" is being kind. The backstop was only about 30' long, there was a gap of about 10', then another 10' of fence for the "dugout." Then nothing. There was a bench for the players, but no walls orfencing separatingthe team from the spectators. Parents, siblings, and the occasional dog wandered into and out of the "dugout" throughout the game.

As for what I wanted to accomplish ... I caved to my desire to say at least one thing to the #%^#. I know I was wrong ... mea culpa. It DID work, though ... the coach and DWALC both were surprised that I heard them, and their attitudes were ... conciliatory? Obsequeious (SP?)?

And it's better than "You're right, coach, I can se the strikes better from here." IMO.

Thaks for the feedback and comments.

[bamatazz]

JHL...

It is one thing to have thick skin. It is another for someone to use profanity in front of kids that everyone can here. You have grounds to have him dismissed from the area. Tell the HC to have him removed. If the coach refuses, the coach just ejected himself for refusing to do as you asked. NO ONE should have to put up with someone that is using that kind of language at a kids game. To be honest, if he was out there warming the pitcher up and others as well before the game and helping the playeres during the game while wearing a team jersey, I am going to assume that he is a coach or a "representative" of the team. In that case, I will eject him myself.

[MNBlue17]

Definitely a coach. Definitely profanity. Definitely 9 year olds. Easiest toss of your life (well, maybe not, but close!) and you missed it.

[LMan]

Great points. This idiot (even if you consider him a spec and not a coach) gave you the perfect opportunity to throw him out by dropping a F-bomb in a 9U tourney. You had the chance right there to remove him and enjoy a better game (as well as earn the undying gratitude of his fellow specs).

Since he's really a coach, right then you tell his HC that he goes, or nothing happens. If the HC wont do it, the TD will.

I don't know how much it matters, but this was a mid-week game, not a tourney. No league administrators within 15 miles of the ball field.

I'm fascinated by the number of people saying "Toss the bum" when all I've seen on this and other boards is "Get thicker skin" and "The spectators are beyond the ump's authority."

If I had it to do over again, given it was 9U, I'd probably tell the head coach/manager to get th parent under control, especially once the F-bomb went off.

Live and learn.

Imagine your (notional, perhaps) 9 year old son standing next to him while he says "f*#^" over and over. Maybe that will bring it into better focus.

I'm not a pollyanna but cmon, F bombs around little kids like that?