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MinnesotaMayhem05
06-17-2006, 08:54 PM
12 Year Old Tourney:

The guy had been on me all game, which doesn't bother me at all as it's part of the game. Especially since nothing was demeaning or very direct. Then, I called a guy out at third and as I was walking back to homeplate, he made eye contact with me and said "JESUS CHRIST, You're the only one in the world who saw that!"

I had put the mask back on by the time he got to "Only one..."

I ripped the mask off, walked back to the fence and said "How far away did you park?" he looked at me, shrugged and asked why it matters.

"Hopefully not too far, because that's where you're watching the rest of this game"

Coach of his son's team thanked me.

BigUmp56
06-17-2006, 09:06 PM
I'm just curious here. By what rule did you eject this spectator? Unless you have some local league rule that allows this, you over stepped your authority. Our authority ends on the field and in the dugouts. What goes on outside the fences is not our concern until it begins to spill over onto the field. If it gets so bad outside the fence that it has to be addressed you should suspend the game and get a league official to deal with it.



Tim.

MinnesotaMayhem05
06-18-2006, 03:57 AM
Looking back at the situation, I should've mentioned the game will not continue until he leaves, steps back, whatever.

My concern wasn't that my feelings would be hurt by being questioned. I'm used to it, it doesn't bother me at all. I felt that yelling "JESUS CHRIST" loud enough for everyone at the field and the next field over to hear, was grounds for his removal, whether it was me or the tourney director who removed him.

You may be right that I overstepped my authority of "ejecting" him, but the game wasn't continuing with the parent sitting front and center behind home plate.

By the way, thanks for the input. I don't mean to sound like an arrogant prick who won't accept being wrong.

Lawrence_Dorsey
06-18-2006, 04:04 AM
You will get your butt in more hot water than you can ever imagine if you try to officiate the game outside the fences. If the fan is that bad, and I can't recall too many that met this criteria, then get a tournament official or athletic director (ie. game or field management) to handle the fan. If you're in the middle of nowhere on a dark night, politely ask someone on the other side to use their cell phone to call law enforcement.

Mind you all of the steps should only be used on really abusive, drunk, or profane fans. You actually did do the right thing when you made eye contact with them. Usually they either shut up or they get louder until someone tells them to shut up that is sitting around them.

In 1992 or 93, I was working the Bronco Division (PONY) City Championships in Raleigh NC. There was a team, actually from the league I had played in some 9 years prior, that had three complete jerks for coaches. One of those coaches son's (he was about 16) comes over during the game to my side (I'm working first base in a 4 umpire system) and starts harrassing me. I did nothing but look at him. It was only a 4 foot fence and my plan was only to confront him if he came over the fence. Instead, one of my friends in the Parks Dept who was a weightlifter and a generally scary looking guy comes up from behind him and says "Hey buddy, you aren't going to harrass the umpires". The kid said" yeah, who's gonna stop me". My friend replied "I'll have the police department escort you out if I don't do it first". Out of nowhere some giant of a guy nearby said" Yeah and I'll help him get you outta here". Kid decides to take his mouth and the rest of his body back to his dad's side of the field.....

Lawrence

BigUmp56
06-18-2006, 04:44 AM
Looking back at the situation, I should've mentioned the game will not continue until he leaves, steps back, whatever.

My concern wasn't that my feelings would be hurt by being questioned. I'm used to it, it doesn't bother me at all. I felt that yelling "JESUS CHRIST" loud enough for everyone at the field and the next field over to hear, was grounds for his removal, whether it was me or the tourney director who removed him.

You may be right that I overstepped my authority of "ejecting" him, but the game wasn't continuing with the parent sitting front and center behind home plate.

By the way, thanks for the input. I don't mean to sound like an arrogant prick who won't accept being wrong.

I understand the sentiment involved, as I know how hard it can be to keep my composure when an unruly fan shows his dark side. I also couldn't agree with you more that something needed to be done. It's just that it's really not our job to address the fans. We often hear umpires talk about how they'll tell the coach to handle it or face ejection themselves. There is really no rule to support one of us forcing a coach to deal with this either. The only thing we can do and still be supported by rule is to put both teams in the dugouts and suspend all play until someone deals with the idiot. Coach, TD, AD, or BOD member, it really doesn't matter as long as it get's taken care of.


Tim.

barton
06-19-2006, 12:56 AM
When it comes right down to it, very often the umpire is oftne the only non-partisan person at games. I do alot of games at one of the local HS where one American Legion team meets another, there parents, family, and girl friends plop down their lawn chairs along the boudaries of the field and then me and partner arrive. There are no AD's, tournament directors, or board members their. If an unruly spectator comes to life sometimes you have to be creative.

As much as I know I have no authority over spectators, the spectators don't know that. If I threaten the coach with a forfeit if he does tell his catcher's loud-mouth momma to leave the field, he doesn't know I can't really do it. However, if it comes down to allowing bedlam or trying to snuff it out, I will try and snuff it out.

Lucky for me I have never had to resort to any of these things having never had such and unruly person who was so distracting it was effecting the game.

Rcichon
06-19-2006, 01:18 PM
We must keep control once the game has started. If you're lucky, you have a BOD member present and can utilize many angles to control the game or like Barton, use your experience to navigate Rats!

Fortunately I have a seat on the BOD (UIC) for my local LL. If the spectator uses profanity I can remove him from the stands as the Board HAS rules for this. Never did it, usually a good stare shuts em up.

Always Keep The Paying Public Out Of The Game.

BT_Blue
06-24-2006, 04:01 AM
In HS and most youth leagues you do have the authority to remove an unruley fan. Here in LA we are actually instructed that if a parent is making problems enough that you have to ask them to leave you walk up to the coach for what ever team they are rooting for and tell them the fan must leave. They should then take care of it. If they refuse, then it is our option to inform them that if they dont take care of the fan then we will but stopping the game until the fan leaves and oh yeh coach... your going to be joining them.

BigUmp56
06-24-2006, 04:24 AM
In HS and most youth leagues you do have the authority to remove an unruley fan.

You're painting with an awefully big brush when you say we have this authority in both HS and most youth leagues. I work LL, BR, MM, and AML in youth leagues and none of them have a provision for an umpire to directly remove a spectator. In Indiana HS ball we're instructed to either find an AD or a school administrator who's presense is mandated at each contest and have them deal with the problem. You can certainly suspend the contest until it's taken care of, but I don't believe we have the authority to litteraly eject a spectator. At least not in the leagues I just mentioned.


Tim.

MSPChris
06-24-2006, 08:15 AM
BT_Blue is right -- under FED rules the umpire can eject any nonplayer for unsportsmanlike conduct.

The FED rules don't define "nonplayer" but that term seems to be more inclusive than the phrase "coach or manager" which is used elsewhere in the book.

I've only EJ'd a fan once, and it never occurred to me that I may not have had the authority to do so.

If the situation comes up again (haha if?? i meant when) and I'm questioned I would cite that rule (10.1.4 i think)

BigUmp56
06-24-2006, 11:53 AM
We're going to have to disagree on this one. "Nonplayer" is categorized the same way in FED as "authorized personnel" is in OBR. This would include such individuals as media, ball boys, trainers, etc...., but not spectators.


Tim.

SpokaneBlue
06-25-2006, 08:41 AM
I can remember one memorable parent of a rec league player. He was notorious for showing up at games semi-drunk and dropping the F-bomb at most plays/calls.

It only took a couple of innings for his first performance. Between innings I asked some of the parents seated behind the fence what his problem was. They said something about wishing someone would do something about the guy.

Between the next innings I asked to have a word with the "gentleman." His immediate response was, "I know, I'm gone, right?"

I answered with, "No sir, I'd like you to stay and watch your son but I have one condition; there will be no further profanity."

He headed immediately for his truck and I didn't hear a peep out of him.

I was lucky with that one!!

Tim_C
06-25-2006, 03:25 PM
Please learn the difference between 'Federation Rules' and local rules established for your area by teams or your group.

Statements such as:

BT_Blue is right -- under FED rules the umpire can eject any nonplayer for unsportsmanlike conduct.

and,

In HS and most youth leagues you do have the authority to remove an unruley fan.

. . . are simply incorrect per Federation interpretation from the spring newsletters.

FEDlandia DOES NOT want umpires ejecting non-participants. They direct "Game Managment" to take care of these issues.

Don't quote FED until you understand it!

Regards,

MSPChris
06-26-2006, 12:30 AM
Hey tim -- why don't you explain to anyone that might want to know where one could get the newsletters you're talking about?

In my earlier post, i cited the wrong FED rule number. Here's the correct citation.

10-1-6 ...[the umpire's] right to disqualify players or remove nonplayers for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct is absolute....

Now that I re-read it, you're absolutely right Tim. What in the world was I thinking when I wrote under FED rules the umpire can eject any nonplayer for unsportsmanlike conduct

AugieDonatelli
06-26-2006, 02:18 AM
Hey tim -- why don't you explain to anyone that might want to know where one could get the newsletters you're talking about?

In my earlier post, i cited the wrong FED rule number. Here's the correct citation.

10-1-6 ...[the umpire's] right to disqualify players or remove nonplayers for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct is absolute....

Now that I re-read it, you're absolutely right Tim. What in the world was I thinking when I wrote under FED rules the umpire can eject any nonplayer for unsportsmanlike conduct

Nonplayers are game personnel authorized to be on the field of play, or announcers, grounds crew, scorekeepers, etc. These people are subject to the rule you are referencing.

Non-participants are the fans, the crowd, the mob, the peanut gallery, who either paid or didn't pay to sit or stand and watch the baseball game. They are not part of the game. They should be ignored if at all possible.

If one of these non-entities need to be removed, you need to have a game management official, such as Tournament Director, Athletic Director, or some such person of authority do the removing. It is not the umpire's job.

This link might help with the newsletter Tim is talking about:

http://www.nfhs.org/ScriptContent/Va_custom/vimdisplays/contentpagedisplay.cfm?content_ID=107

MNBlue17
06-26-2006, 04:50 AM
Augie wrote:
If one of these non-entities need to be removed, you need to have a game management official, such as Tournament Director, Athletic Director, or some such person of authority do the removing. It is not the umpire's job.

Where I come from, the only "game management official" is the umpire. I know that at almost all of my games I'm going to be the lone ranger out there. If there's a director or somebody higher up on the totem pole than me there, than fine, I agree completely. If there's not, however, the rule of law in that category should not be abandoned due to lack of an appropriate official. Whatever duties need to be held that aren't held by somebody there, I'm going to take over. Too often there are situations that need to be addressed, and I'm going to address them if nobody else will. Most of the time, the fans/parents are separated from me by a chain-link fence and twelve feet of air. I'll be damned if I'm not going to consider any part of the immeadiate vicinity of the field under my authority. Sometimes these parents are so abusive that they may as well be on the field or in the dugout because it wouldn't make a difference, everyone can hear it anyway. Again, if there's someone there who's supposed to deal with it, fine, but if not, I will.

AugieDonatelli
06-26-2006, 06:42 AM
Augie wrote:
If one of these non-entities need to be removed, you need to have a game management official, such as Tournament Director, Athletic Director, or some such person of authority do the removing. It is not the umpire's job.

Where I come from, the only "game management official" is the umpire. I know that at almost all of my games I'm going to be the lone ranger out there. If there's a director or somebody higher up on the totem pole than me there, than fine, I agree completely. If there's not, however, the rule of law in that category should not be abandoned due to lack of an appropriate official. Whatever duties need to be held that aren't held by somebody there, I'm going to take over. Too often there are situations that need to be addressed, and I'm going to address them if nobody else will. Most of the time, the fans/parents are separated from me by a chain-link fence and twelve feet of air. I'll be damned if I'm not going to consider any part of the immeadiate vicinity of the field under my authority. Sometimes these parents are so abusive that they may as well be on the field or in the dugout because it wouldn't make a difference, everyone can hear it anyway. Again, if there's someone there who's supposed to deal with it, fine, but if not, I will.

Kid,

Most of my games are "one-man band" affairs too. Just ignore what goes on outside the fence. Have any of these abusive, vulgar, swearing fans ever came out onto the field? I know it isn't easy blocking them out, in fact, you can't really block them out.

I had a set of rabbit ears for a couple years before I realized what everyone was telling me was right. You have to let whatever they say roll off you like water off a duck's back. If they are that abusive where you actually fear for your safety, then tell your assignor to get on the phone with the president of that league and tell him that if he wants any more umpires, that he puts a stop to this behavior. That usually sends the message loud and clear.

You're not still working for the guy that doesn't want you ejecting people are you? A good umpire boss backs his men up at all times, and doesn't put up with a bunch of horsesh*t out of coaches and league presidents.

You keep your head in the game inside the fence, ignore what goes on outside the fence as much as possible.

You're MNBlue18 now, right? A grizzled ol' veteran!!! :lol:

Tim_C
06-26-2006, 12:21 PM
Make up any rules you want . . .

SDS nailed the correct definitions of of players and non-participants.

The spring newsletters are sent to all NFHS certified umpires in the nation. IF your local group certifies you and sends the information in you automatically get the newsletters.

Sadly this was not always the case.

The newsletters have been an official National Federation of High Schools interpretation document for many, many years.

AND, in closing, no umpire (using the NFHS rules only) has the authority to throw out spectators from any game. Your local area may have additional requirements.

IF you are at a game where there is no "game managment" present the NFHS suggests that you inform the "home team" coach that the game will not continue until the issue is solved . . . if the problem is with the "home team head coach" then you are to remind him that he is in charge and if he doesn't take care of the issue(that would be "him") then the game will, by rule, needed to be suspended and reported to the league.

Chris, I am sorry you don't agree but I call games by the rules.

Regards,

Ozzy
06-26-2006, 04:17 PM
I am always amazed by amateur umpires that think that their authority includes the fans/parents. Try to understand the simple fact that you as an amateur umpire have no authority over the fans by any rule book!

If you can get both coaches to agree, pull everyone off the diamond and wait for the idiot to leave. Other than that, your only recourse is to dial 911 and let the local police handle the fans and parents. They have the authority to "eject (fans/parents) outside the fence", not you!

umpduck11
06-27-2006, 02:02 AM
Augie wrote:
Whatever duties need to be held that aren't held by somebody there, I'm going to take over.

Do you also do groundskeeping if there's no groundskeeper? Wouldn't
want that infield to go unraked ! :lol:

AugieDonatelli
06-27-2006, 05:27 AM
Whatever duties need to be held that aren't held by somebody there, I'm going to take over.

Do you also do groundskeeping if there's no groundskeeper? Wouldn't
want that infield to go unraked ! :lol:

Chuck,

Will you please learn how to do the quotes??? I didn't say that!!!!! :lol:

I fixed it in my post for you.

Stevie Wonderhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_14_1.gif

MNBlue17
06-27-2006, 04:09 PM
Everything I said, it's only come up once in three years. The only time I do address the crowd is when it becomes a major distraction to the people on the field. The one time it happened wasn't even directed at me. The dad of the "star" player (pitcher) went off on the "weak" player in left field after he missed an easy fly. He ran down the fence line and got as close as possible to this kid without going onto the field, and just kept screaming about how that cost them 2 runs and they should have been out of the inning and when are you going to make an f-ing play. The guy was out of control. The left fielder was crying and the pitcher was over at the fence screaming at his dad. Everyone was stupefied, just watching this whole thing slack-jawed and silent. After a couple of minutes, I woke up and walked over to coach and said to get him out of here. He just kind of nodded in a trance and started walking without ever looking at me. The trance broke once the dad noticed him and went off on the coach, too. At that point the coach (a larger man) talked him down and got him to leave. The whole thing was just surreal. Nobody there had seen anything like it before.

Would you all agree that at this point, the game could not continue until this guy were removed? Had the coach, instead of just nodding and take care of it, said "F--k you, I ain't going anywhere near that bat-s--t crazy mother-f--ker! You take care of that damn nut-job yourself!" would any of you even hesitated to clam the guy down? I guess calling the cops would be an option, but not until after I at least try to settle him down from behind the relative safety of a fence.

I agree, you can't have rabbit-ears, but if it goes beyond words something needs to happen.

Tim_C
06-27-2006, 04:51 PM
"Would you all agree that at this point, the game could not continue until this guy were removed? Had the coach, instead of just nodding and take care of it, said "F--k you, I ain't going anywhere near that bat-s--t crazy mother-f--ker! You take care of that damn nut-job yourself!" would any of you even hesitated to clam the guy down? I guess calling the cops would be an option, but not until after I at least try to settle him down from behind the relative safety of a fence. "

No, I do not agree.

In a game played by "shaving aged" players I would no more place myself into this situation as I would if the "parent" was scolding me about balls and strikes.

IF some how I thought something should be done (BTW, nothing to be done in this situation) I would ask for "game managment" if there was no "game managment" I would then instruct the home team coach that no game would proceed until the individual was "handled" (i.e. ejected, arrested or even sedated if necessary ;-}) but I would not eject the fan.

If the home team coach "refused" to take care of the issue (even if it was an opposing fan I would expect the home team coach to settle the issue with the visiting coach) then I would "suspend" the game and allow the schools, league or state association take care of the issue.

Umpires do not have the authority to "eject" fans.

Pretty simple too me.

Regards,

MNBlue17
06-27-2006, 09:15 PM
that's probably what I'd do too for the most part. every once in a while we get some wackos, don't we?

Davidsb63
06-29-2006, 03:26 PM
If the umpire asks the coach to remove a fan, is it not the exact thing as an umpire removing the fan?

Rcichon
06-29-2006, 04:20 PM
no

Lawrence_Dorsey
06-29-2006, 05:47 PM
I'll ride with Tee on this one. Here's a real life example that happened to me in 1991( my first season of umpiring). I was BU in a 9-10 year old game. A pitch bounces in front of the plate, batter dances to get out of the way. Offensive team was all over me and my partner to award a base. One lady, who I thought was sitting in the dugout, kept on after everyone had quieted down (she was actually just outside the dugout in a lawn chair). I finally looked over in a loud voice and said "Hey, it didn't hit him OK, that's enough" or something to that effect. Well, after the game she tracked me down. Honestly, I think I was too green to realize I should have walked faster and gotten outta there quicker. She told me that she was offended by what I said to her and she thought I did it because of her skin color. I responded that no I didn't mean to offend her and that skin color wasn't apart of it. I informed her that in fact my day job was working with people of several nationalities and ethnic backgrounds (completely true) and skin color wasn't part of that equation either. She told me she was going to call my supervisor. Nothing ever happened. The supervisor was a minority and she called what the lady said "a bunch of junk". I haven't talked to anyone outside the fence since that day.

One more example of how to get yourself in a pickle while interacting with rowdy fans. About 1994, I was a BU in a 13-14 Pony game. The PU was a retired NYC Sanitation Worker and he talked about as clean as the garbage he had hauled for his job. A tag play at the plate develops, it was a classic NC red clay "cloud of dust play". The runner was probably safe but PU called him out. Runner's dad was a complete jerk who popped off all the time. He hollered at the PU from about 10 feet behind the backstop, "Hey buddy, you need to get another damn job". PU yells back "Hey Buddy, you need to shut up". Well I had known the fan off and on for a couple of years and I knew he couldn't let that go. After the game I walked to my partner's car as I always do and here comes the dad with his son's 2 bats in his hands (I knew this guy well enough to know he wasn't going to use them). PU and Dad get into a discussion over who said and did what. Finally, Dad looks at me and says 'You know me well enough to know....). I cut him off right there. I said, "Jack, I do know you and I know you well enough that I doubt you want the police department contacting you at your place of business tomorrow. You have two options 1) Leave now and we'll forget this 2) Stand here and continue to jaw and I'll file a report with the PD." He took option 1.

I have called the police once in my career and again it was 92 or 93. A parent went into an 11-12 year old dugout and got into an argument with his son's coach. He then left the field and came back. I asked the coach, who was a decent guy, if the parent was capable of violence. He said he didn't know and that was good enough for me. I called the PD and an officer sat in the parking lot and watched everyone go home peacefully.

Sorry for the long post,

Lawrence

LMan
06-29-2006, 08:46 PM
If the umpire asks the coach to remove a fan, is it not the exact thing as an umpire removing the fan?

Not even close.

StephenG
07-18-2006, 08:18 PM
Well, I can't say i have ever directly tossed a fan, but i have definitely held a game until a fan was removed under threat of me forfeiting the game.

End of the season in 2002, i was working a Bantam Championship tournament game in Richmond Hill Ontario, Saturday morning, 8am in the rain. Top of the 7th, a parent yells at me between batters that "you're not going to walk of the f*&*ing diamond ump." I didn't see who called it, but i knew which side it came from. I called time, walked back to the fence, to the site coordinator who thankfully was an umpire in RH as well, asked him if he had any problem with me suspending the game and advising the coach it would be a forfeit to the side the threat came from if a parent didn't leave within five minutes, which he agreed to, i advise the coach, he turned to the parents and said something as i returned to the plate area, a guy stood up, "you f*$&ing suck ump" and stormed off.

Sad part of the storey, that team completed the comeback to win in extra innings after having nearly been mercy ruled earlier in the game.

archipelligo
07-18-2006, 08:29 PM
Lot of weird stuff seems to happen in Canadian baseball. Maybe it's because the season is so short ( the two weeks between the end of hockey season and the beginning of next hockey season) and they have to pack a lot into that time frame.

bigblueump
08-14-2006, 10:40 PM
My $.02 worth...

This year I worked mostly HS games & some 13/14 Y/O games when I'm not doing HS. If I have a fan causing an interruption in the normal flow of play (i.e. being beligerant & cussing) I have no problem telling the fan to leave if there is not a site director handy. Do I have the authority to do so? Most of the time, no, but they don't know that. I usually have to do this about twice a year or so & yet I have had no fan challenge my authority. The only thing that I've happen is that the coaches and many times the kids themselves are glad to have them gone.

I know I'll get raked over the coals for this but it works and I'm not changing. :lol:

BigDaddy
08-16-2006, 03:55 AM
In my association, if a fan is bugging an umpire on every call or just acting up and setting a bad example for the kids, we tell the coach's to control their fans, if we hear one more word from the spectators about the job we're doing or our calls, we eject the coach's one by one, until they have no coaching staff, and then let the league president deal with the forefit.

barton
08-16-2006, 04:07 AM
In my association, if a fan is bugging an umpire on every call or just acting up and setting a bad example for the kids, we tell the coach's to control their fans, if we hear one more word from the spectators about the job we're doing or our calls, we eject the coach's one by one, until they have no coaching staff, and then let the league president deal with the forefit.

It would seem to me in a situation where a fan was causing a disturbance the coaches are the guys you WANT to be there and on your side. Why toss them out of the game? I have never had to deal with this situation in my 17 years on the field. I have never had fans become so pissed at me or a partner to the point it affected the game. However, I have learned form guys who have had to deal with it that the best thing to do is simply stop the game. Order all players off the field to their benches.

Once the field is clear tell both coaches that you will not resume the game until the unruly fans have left the field area. Don't order them to do anything, they will figure this out for themselves. Then go stand near the mound with your partner, wait and let the coaches and other fans deal with the jerks on their own terms. If they can't get rid of the jerks within 10 minutes or so, terminate the game and leave. Let the League board deal with it.

Ozzy
08-16-2006, 11:25 AM
My $.02 worth...

This year I worked mostly HS games & some 13/14 Y/O games when I'm not doing HS. If I have a fan causing an interruption in the normal flow of play (i.e. being beligerant & cussing) I have no problem telling the fan to leave if there is not a site director handy. Do I have the authority to do so? Most of the time, no, but they don't know that. I usually have to do this about twice a year or so & yet I have had no fan challenge my authority. The only thing that I've happen is that the coaches and many times the kids themselves are glad to have them gone.

I know I'll get raked over the coals for this but it works and I'm not changing. :lol:
I disagree with doing anything "outside the fence" (read my post earlier in this thread). Barton's response to BigDaddy's post is exactly what you should do when a fan gets to a point where he/she has to be dealt with.

Now what I have done was to call both managers together as close to the abusive fan as possible and discuss stopping the game in a normal voice. You'd be surprised how quickly either the fan shuts up or the fans around him/her end the whole problem. I've done this about a dozen times and only had to stop the game once. None of these were HS games, they were all either AAU or youth games.

BigDaddy
08-16-2006, 05:25 PM
I agree. We do nothing outside of the fence. But when it comes to a point where the actual game is being affected, I believe it is the coach's responsibility to control his fans. I like the way you deal with things though. In my association, I'm not so sure that we can stop a game due to fans being out of control. It's usually the parents that don't know the rules, so the coach's usually explain the rules to them and they shut up. If they don't, and we've already warned the coach about their verbal abuse, we toss the coach's one by one. I would much rather just end the game and replay it, because that seems like the more sensible thing to do.

BigDaddy

barton
08-16-2006, 05:34 PM
.... In my association, I'm not so sure that we can stop a game due to fans being out of control. ....
BigDaddy

Dad,

If you allow me to stretch rule 5.10(a) you do have the power to stop the game for unruly fans....

5.10(a) The ball becomes dead when an umpire calls "Time." The umpire in chief shall call "Time" when in his judgment weather, darkness or similar conditions make immediate further play impossible;

If accept that the behavior of the fans have made further play impossible, then you have the support of the rules to stop the game.

archipelligo
08-16-2006, 06:01 PM
Once during a HS summer game, there was a delayed dead ball call, but before the play was over the moms were screaming interference, interference, but once the play was over, we applied the proper rule and it was cool. An inning or two later, while getting a sip of water near the moms in the grandstand, one of the dads asked me to explain it, which i did, and the dads nodded their head in understanding, while the moms continued to scream about getting it wrong, you oughta be watching, pay more attention, all that stuff. Just proves why women are not good umpires, they are too emotional.

wonderbread
08-16-2006, 07:44 PM
Just proves why women are not good umpires, they are too emotional.

Wow.

All this proves is that these women in question knew nothing of the game, or really really wanted little Johnny to win the game.

A blanket statement like that is ridiculous

AugieDonatelli
08-16-2006, 08:41 PM
Just proves why women are not good umpires, they are too emotional.

Wow.

All this proves is that these women in question knew nothing of the game, or really really wanted little Johnny to win the game.

A blanket statement like that is ridiculous

I must agree. Its sounds more like Archie Bunker than archipelligo! :lol:

archipelligo
08-17-2006, 01:41 AM
WB, do they have women hockey refs in Canuckland?

whosyourblue
08-17-2006, 01:58 AM
WB, do they have women hockey refs in Canuckland?

I don't know about women hockey refs.


--There are ladies that frequent this board--

Please leave the sexual comments off of this board.

Tim.

wonderbread
08-17-2006, 02:14 AM
WB, do they have women hockey refs in Canuckland?

Sure.

We also have female baseball umpires. There is also a professional female NBA referee.

Try telling her that women are "too emotional" to officiate.

whosyourblue
08-17-2006, 04:55 AM
WB, do they have women hockey refs in Canuckland?

I don't know about women hockey refs.


--There are ladies that frequent this board--

Please leave the sexual comments off of this board.

Tim.

I guess your constant use of the term MILF in your posts doesn't count as sexual comments...... :roll:

I'm sure your little code talk fools all the ladies that frequent this board. NOT................. :twisted:

Do I need to go back and research your prior posts to prove my point? :(

BigUmp56
08-17-2006, 05:58 AM
You can go back and pull up as many posts as you wish of mine. You'll not find one that contains language about sexual positions. It's inappropriate and I'll kindly ask you to refrain from doing it here.


Thanks,


Tim.

whosyourblue
08-17-2006, 04:56 PM
You can go back and pull up as many posts as you wish of mine. You'll not find one that contains language about sexual positions. It's inappropriate and I'll kindly ask you to refrain from doing it here.


Thanks,


Tim.

What does language about sexual positions have to be the only determining factor. Smut is smut, it doesn't matter how you spell it out. I've seen you post some pretty raunchy pictures and comments in the past. I suppose now that you weaseled your way into a moderator job, I'm your little pet project.

Now I know all the little insults I received don't mean much to you. Hell, they don't even bother me in the least. I figure you leave them up as bait jobs. It's nice to have a little power and be able to take the moral high ground. However, pointing fingers just shows how unlevel you want the playing field to be.

IMO, people with your past history have no business being a moderator. You are much to sensitive or prejudice to handle a position such as this.

BigUmp56
08-17-2006, 07:09 PM
~sigh~

I didn't weasle my way into anything. I was asked to help moderate the board. If that upsets you that you and Steve are now being asked to tone it down then you need to take it up with Dan. Of course you don't think I should be a moderator. You'd like to just continue to say anything you please without regard for other members, and see this board turned into Mcgriffs. Mine was a simple request in this thread. It wasn't personal or biased. I'd just like to see comments about sexual positions left off of this section of the board. I won't let this thread be degraded to another useless flame war, so if you'd like to respond to this post please do it via the PM system.


Thanks,


Tim.

ovechkin
08-24-2006, 02:58 PM
when fans start to over step just spectating and start to get to me and start being louder then me i go to the coaches of the team the spectator is cheering for and i ask him to control his fans if the spectator is still out of control then i start tossing coaches

Ozzy
08-24-2006, 04:23 PM
when fans start to over step just spectating and start to get to me and start being louder then me i go to the coaches of the team the spectator is cheering for and i ask him to control his fans if the spectator is still out of control then i start tossing coaches
This is exactly what we have been addressing in this thread. A coach may assist you in crowd control but he may not be able or willing to. You have no rule to back you if you "start tossing coaches". As a matter of fact, it is the coaches that may be getting between you and the fans on your way to the parking lot.

This is why the consensus is to just stop the game. If the situation doesn't resolve itself, the game is over for today (no forfeit).

barton
08-24-2006, 04:39 PM
when fans start to over step just spectating and start to get to me and start being louder then me i go to the coaches of the team the spectator is cheering for and i ask him to control his fans if the spectator is still out of control then i start tossing coaches

kin,
How times have you had to deal with unruly fans in this manner?

killdump
08-24-2006, 10:46 PM
when fans start to over step just spectating and start to get to me and start being louder then me i go to the coaches of the team the spectator is cheering for and i ask him to control his fans if the spectator is still out of control then i start tossing coaches
If the coach is one one exciting the fans, then he should be dumped, but not if it's just his fans being unruly. You may ask for his assistance in getting them under control, but to throw him out because of it just isn't right. On those very rare games where the fans like to show their proverbial a$$es, I stop the game, and find the person that is over the site(League Prez, Tournament director), and tell them to handle it. I had a friend of mine who cleared a whole section of fans from the stands last year. The police at the site ushered them right out of the park. it was the craziest thing that i had ever seen.

ovechkin
08-25-2006, 06:57 AM
i have personaly had to deal with fans acting like this many times. last game i did i saw lighting so i delayed the game for 15 mins and made sure it was safe to play as the game was starting up again me and my partner were standing down the first base line looking behind the dugout area where we had seen the lighting the first time watching to see if we see it again when a fan said that we were making one the the players sisters uncomfortable becasue she belived that we were looking at her wen we were acually clearly looking to the area we had seen the lighting the first time. i found this offencive as if i didn't take my job serously.

killdump
08-25-2006, 09:39 PM
That's when you should have told the players sister to get over herself, and get the hell out of the way, so you could see if the lightning storm had passed.