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JerseyLawyer
06-05-2006, 05:12 PM
As they say on those call-in sports radio shows, long time, first time...

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that I'm getting soft in my 'old' age. Or, my trigger finger has gotten significantly less itchy.

Here's the situation: LL 11U team in a tournament. I'm on the bases. Passed ball, R2 tries for third, ball beats him there, see the glove go down, see the tag, ball stays in glove, "He's out!" with the big sell punchout.

3rd Base coach (who was the manager) goes nuts. Look, he's in the bag! Bends over and points at the bag. The usual stuff about it being the worst call he's ever seen, how I need a better angle, etc., etc. I turn around and jog back to A position, and he shuts up. Between innings, he comes over to me, and has more to say, I tell him the tag was there before his player slid, end of story, let's play ball. He complains about my angle again, and goes back to the dugout.

Later in the game... Coach Hothead's team is down a lot. R1 and R2, I'm in C. Passed ball, runners go, throw goes to 2nd. Safe by a country mile. "He left early" from the dugout, coach calls time, and, shouting all the way, asks the PU, who shakes his head. The coach says, "The call is THIS" and makes the safe sign. I trot over. We get the coach shut up and back to the dugout. Game ends shortly thereafter.

Anyway... I see about three things I would have done differently. I shoulda dumped him when he yelled across the field at me about the play at third. One of us should have dumped him for shouting at us from the dugout, and I think he should have went for the "The call is..." and safe sign thing.

I do realize it's a tournament and whatnot, but there seems to be an inversely proportional relationship between the age of the players and the jerk-ness of the coaches.

K3Called
06-05-2006, 05:40 PM
As they say on those call-in sports radio shows, long time, first time...
Welcome aboard.

3rd Base coach (who was the manager) goes nuts. Look, he's in the bag! Bends over and points at the bag. The usual stuff about it being the worst call he's ever seen, how I need a better angle, etc., etc. I turn around and jog back to A position, and he shuts up.
OK so far!

Between innings, he comes over to me, and has more to say, I tell him the tag was there before his player slid, end of story, let's play ball. He complains about my angle again, and goes back to the dugout.
Question...you're in A...which side was his dugout...first or third?
If it's the first base side...I might give him a little space....but if his dugout is on the third base side....I'm shortening the leash because this discussion ended back when you headed over to the A position after the call!

Later in the game... Coach Hothead's team is down a lot. R1 and R2, I'm in C. Passed ball, runners go, throw goes to 2nd. Safe by a country mile. "He left early" from the dugout, coach calls time, and, shouting all the way, asks the PU, who shakes his head. The coach says, "The call is THIS" and makes the safe sign.
Thanks for stopping by coach...unforturnately there are no lovely parting gifts for you!


Anyway... I see about three things I would have done differently. I shoulda dumped him when he yelled across the field at me about the play at third.
Yup! You turned your back and went to the A position...he's making an arss of himself across the field....send him!

One of us should have dumped him for shouting at us from the dugout, and I think he should have went for the "The call is..." and safe sign thing.
Definately let it go much too long!

K3

barton
06-05-2006, 06:10 PM
Jersey,

You let several appropriate opportunities to dump this guy go by. By doing this you have affirmed in his mind that his behavior was acceptable and he will persist in acting that way in his next game. Rather than cure him, you have passed this problem coach on to another umpire to handle.

Coach goes nuts.
Missed opportunity #1 (unacceptable language, or behavior)

Coach bends over and points at the bag.
Missed opportunity #2 (being too demonstrative)

Between innings, he comes over to me, and has more to say,
Missed opportunity #3 (brings up an play from earlier in the game)

I tell him ... end of story, let's play ball. He complains about my angle again,
Missed opportunity #4 (he fails to follow your order to stop arguing)

The coach says, "The call is THIS" and makes the safe sign.
Missed opportunity #5 (he is mimicking you, and being demonstrative)

What does a guy have to do to get dumped by you?

AugieDonatelli
06-05-2006, 08:23 PM
Then I have to follow you in his next game, and he's gonna wonder why he got tossed so quickly, when his last umpire let him get away with the same behavior. You have to eject when called for. To not do so is to not do your job properly.

BigUmp56
06-05-2006, 08:37 PM
Then I have to follow you in his next game, and he's gonna wonder why he got tossed so quickly, when his last umpire let him get away with the same behavior. You have to eject when called for. To not do so is to not do your job properly.

Unless you're a rook from Texas! :roll:


Tim.

archipelligo
06-05-2006, 09:18 PM
How many ejections do you guys get in 11U LL? Those Bobby Cox wannabees are just daddy coaches, givem a break. And if they are in full uni, that means they are knowledgeable and savvy.

AugieDonatelli
06-05-2006, 10:20 PM
How many ejections do you guys get in 11U LL? Those Bobby Cox wannabees are just daddy coaches, givem a break. And if they are in full uni, that means they are knowledgeable and savvy.Oh yeah, they're regular big league managerial candidates for sure!

I give the managers a bit more rope than the assistants. I tell the managers in the ground rules that I will only deal with them, and not their assistants. Yet without fail, an assistant will find his way out to me somehow and want to argue my calls. I ask them if they are the manager, knowing full well that they aren't. Then I tell them, "then don't come talk to me about a call." At this point they usually slink away w/tail between legs. If they continue with the dialog, they get run.

archipelligo
06-05-2006, 10:53 PM
Have you ever made the little kids cry when you ejected their daddy/coach? I can see it might be traumatic, two grown men, nose to nose, and one of them yells, " You're gone" and throws his finger towards the parking lot. Wow.

06-06-2006, 03:37 AM
Have you ever made the little kids cry when you ejected their daddy/coach? I can see it might be traumatic, two grown men, nose to nose, and one of them yells, " You're gone" and throws his finger towards the parking lot. Wow.

Yep...I had that happen last year in a 9 yr old Babe Ruth All Star tourney...

Kids dad was also a "legend in his own mind", hotshot local HS varsity coach, and was just out to try to show out, ala his usual self . He starts grumbling because his son, Little Johnny the pitcher, ain't getting 24 inches off the plate...

Grumble here, grumble there grumble some more....Warning issued to Coach Dad... Along about the 3 rd inning, here comes a pitch the catcher almost falls flat trying to glove--BALL!..Coach Dad goes ballistic, kicks the fence----

Cha-chingggg! Buh-Bye!

The kid starts crying on the mound :roll: ...does good to even throw it into the backstop after that...

Little Johnny comes to the plate in the bottom of the inning...Looks at a beach ball down the tube for K3......starts crying again, turns and tells me "You suck!"

and take Little Johnny with ya, Dad!!

So here Coach Dad magically appears out of thin air, grabs Little Johnny, makes a scene by loudly proclaiming for all to hear, " Lets go son, We're moving to Georgia!"

And hasn't been seen since..."Happy trails to you, 'till we meet again!" :lol:

AugieDonatelli
06-06-2006, 07:25 AM
Have you ever made the little kids cry when you ejected their daddy/coach? I can see it might be traumatic, two grown men, nose to nose, and one of them yells, " You're gone" and throws his finger towards the parking lot. Wow.So, you're being your normal smart a$$ self again, huh arch? :roll:

AugieDonatelli
06-06-2006, 07:29 AM
So here Coach Dad magically appears out of thin air, grabs Little Johnny, makes a scene by loudly proclaiming for all to hear, " Lets go son, We're moving to Georgia!"
Why, are the strike zones bigger in Georgia? :lol:

BigUmp56
06-06-2006, 12:03 PM
Have you ever made the little kids cry when you ejected their daddy/coach? I can see it might be traumatic, two grown men, nose to nose, and one of them yells, " You're gone" and throws his finger towards the parking lot. Wow.

I don't get too demonstrative, but I'll jack a coach in a heartbeat if he crosses that line. And no, I don't mean the foul line. High school coach or LL coach, if they deserve an ejection, they get ejected.

I ejected a coach a number of years ago in our district tournament for 12U. When his team took the field on defense the next inning his own catcher thanked me and said "he can really be a dick."


Tim.

JerseyLawyer
06-06-2006, 01:37 PM
Yeah, I admit, I should have tossed him on several occasions. And usually, I wouldn't have hesitated. Probably the minute he bent over and pointed at the kid's foot in the bag. :oops:

I think its something about the little kids - I would never have put up with anything like this in a high school game. But LL coaches don't seem to understand the "rules" (and by this I mean the unwritten ones. Though it goes double for the written ones!). Maybe I was just too stunned to react! ;p

archipelligo
06-06-2006, 03:26 PM
I once called a kid out at 2nd on a bang bang play, and my 'punchout' motion scared him into crying. He was only 7, and I felt like crap. You guys are taking it too seriously by dumping little kids, unless they either tell you 'you suck' or throw their bat in anger, something like that. And the daddy coaches, there is no hope for them, they are always going to be daddy/coaches. Just dumpem without scaring the kids, is all I'm saying. Or, move up to 15 year old and older ball, thats where you can do it like they do on TV. By then the players and their dads are live targets, subject to the full treatment. I once dumped a famous local prick when he over reacted to me telling him , " You know G___, everything I've heard about you is coming true." That was fun, and he enjoyed it as much as I did.

barton
06-06-2006, 03:45 PM
Yeah, I admit, I should have tossed him on several occasions. ... But LL coaches don't seem to understand the "rules" (and by this I mean the unwritten ones.

Jers,
How do you think these LL coaches are going to learn the "rules?" Not by getting a free pass........ when you toss them you will be educating them too.

AugieDonatelli
06-06-2006, 10:11 PM
I once called a kid out at 2nd on a bang bang play, and my 'punchout' motion scared him into crying. He was only 7, and I felt like crap. You guys are taking it too seriously by dumping little kids, unless they either tell you 'you suck' or throw their bat in anger, something like that. And the daddy coaches, there is no hope for them, they are always going to be daddy/coaches. Just dumpem without scaring the kids, is all I'm saying. Or, move up to 15 year old and older ball, thats where you can do it like they do on TV. By then the players and their dads are live targets, subject to the full treatment. I once dumped a famous local prick when he over reacted to me telling him , " You know G___, everything I've heard about you is coming true." That was fun, and he enjoyed it as much as I did.I don't go around dumping kids if they don't deserve to get dumped. It is usually the coaches who ruin the game for the kids with their desire to relive their lost youth vicariously through the kids.

I try everything possible to keep the coaches in the game, and only eject when called for. This year, I have only dumped 2 coaches in 75+ games, and no players.

After 20 years of HS baseball, adult ball, Legion, etc., I intentionally took a step backwards, doing LL and Pony only, and it is amazing how everyone just assumes I must have just fell off the turnip truck and started umpiring that day! I guess they figure only inexperienced umpires do Little League.

The coaches out here are highly competitive, as is the baseball, even at the 9-10 or 11-12 yr. old level. If the coach is going to make a spectacle of himself, he is going to get run, and my ejection is not going to "scare" any kids, but it will be a solid heave-ho!

Rcichon
06-07-2006, 02:23 AM
The sooner Rats know the pecking order, the sooner our BP gets relief!