BOO in the book

[kyle_jt]

How do you deal with batting out of order in a book? Say the batters are reversed, or skipped, and no one notices.

Thanks in advance.
Kyle

[johnnyg08]

I didn't know there was a score keeping section in the rule book, but from an umpiring standpoint, if nobody notices, everything continues as usual. So, I would keep the scorebook as I normally would...but if your scorekeeper notices, he/she should inform the offending manager of the issue so the offending manager can fix it.

I can't believe I replied to a scorekeeping question. Bored on a Saturday.

[kyle_jt]

The scorekeeper doesn't say anything to the manager about BOO. Nothing.

I just wondered what the scorekeeper does, in the book, when this happens. We had this come up in a game last night, and the scorekeeper asked me how to deal with it, and I didn't know.

[KenGibes]

The scorekeeper doesn't say anything to the manager about BOO. Nothing.

I just wondered what the scorekeeper does, in the book, when this happens. We had this come up in a game last night, and the scorekeeper asked me how to deal with it, and I didn't know.

If a batter (or a few batters) were skipped, do the same in the book. Skip the batters that should have batted but didn't. Scorekeepers are supposed to insure they are scoring the correct player in the book.

I have never had a problem where a previous batter (i.e., one that had just batted within the last few at-bats) came to the plate. I've only seen a batter or two skipped. But even then, the scorekeeper would skip all the batters in the book who were being skipped at the plate and continue scoring.

It makes some holes in the book, but it keeps things in order.

If the OOO situation is caught and appealed, you got to use the pink end of your pencil to straighten out the book accordingly.

And, as Kyle said, the official scorekeeper NEVER says anything to allude that the batter at the plate isn't the correct batter. This becomes a real sticking point in rec games (such as LL regular season games) where the home team often keeps the official book.

Oh... and many rule sets DO have a chapter on scorekeeping, including offfical OBR. It just doesn't have anything to do with the umpires.

[kyle_jt]

Our sitution last night was twin brothers coming to the plate in reverse order. I just wondered how this is noted in the book.

I've also seen really jumbled batting orders, that don't resemble anything like what was handed to the umpire/scorekeeper. I just can't fathom what the scorebook would look like, trying to keep track of what's happening at the plate vs. what the lineup should be.

[mcmahm34]

Oh... and many rule sets DO have a chapter on scorekeeping, including offfical OBR. It just doesn't have anything to do with the umpires.

I knew it was there but I can honestly say I've never read that part for any reason! lol:D

[smithma89]

Here's what 10.03(d) of MLB Rules say:

If more than one batter bats out of turn in succession, the official scorer shall score all plays just as they occur, skipping the turn at bat of the player or players who first missed batting in the proper order.

[mturman]

Important to remember, as each batter bats, and is not observed (appealed) by the defense, they are then considered correct...And if at such time they do discover the issue, they will not be able to appeal every batter but only the current / last one...

Aloha,
Mike

[heyblue26]

When a player bats out of turn, the umpire must create order out of the confusion. Baseball clearly defines the procedures to be followed when this occurs. Generally these are the main points to be remembered. 1. there can be no penalty unless the improper batter completes his turn. 2. The defense team must appeal the error. 3. once a pitch has been made to the following batter, the right to appeal is terminated and the preceding batter even though he batted out of order, is considered to have been the proper batter.

This is the most simplist way and just note it it the book as such as am sure its been mentioned.

[Rich_Ives]

...but if your scorekeeper notices, he/she should inform the offending manager of the issue so the offending manager can fix it.

.

If it's the official scorekeeper such notification is forbidden by rule.

[kyle_jt]

Fellas, I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. I know exactly what the umpire does in these situations. I was just wondering what the scorekeeper writes down in the book.

For example: A BR gets walked, then gets called out for BOO. The correct batter is called out, but this same guy has to hit AGAIN. How does the scorekeep handle that? Does he erase that whole AB, move it to the correct batter with a BOO (or BOT) note? Or, do you move over a column?

[Rich_Ives]

Fellas, I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. I know exactly what the umpire does in these situations. I was just wondering what the scorekeeper writes down in the book.

For example: A BR gets walked, then gets called out for BOO. The correct batter is called out, but this same guy has to hit AGAIN. How does the scorekeep handle that? Does he erase that whole AB, move it to the correct batter with a BOO (or BOT) note? Or, do you move over a column?

Erase it - it never happened.

[bobjenkins]

For example: A BR gets walked, then gets called out for BOO. The correct batter is called out, but this same guy has to hit AGAIN. How does the scorekeep handle that? Does he erase that whole AB, move it to the correct batter with a BOO (or BOT) note? Or, do you move over a column?

That one

[KenGibes]

Fellas, I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. I know exactly what the umpire does in these situations. I was just wondering what the scorekeeper writes down in the book.

For example: A BR gets walked, then gets called out for BOO. The correct batter is called out, but this same guy has to hit AGAIN. How does the scorekeep handle that? Does he erase that whole AB, move it to the correct batter with a BOO (or BOT) note? Or, do you move over a column?

I answered that above:

If the OOO situation is caught and appealed, you got to use the pink end of your pencil to straighten out the book accordingly.

[kyle_jt]

Okay, to the wrong batter hits a double, but is called out. But, he's the next, correct batter. Where to you put that double, and out? I mean, the correct batter can't credited with AB, but he's out. So you erase the wrong batters double, and just put BOO in the proper batter's box?

I just want to be able to explain it to our scorekeepers (No, not as an umpire, but as a league official).

[bobjenkins]

Okay. FIrst inning. Batting order is Abel, Baker, Charlie, but they bat Abel Charlie (skipping Baker). In all cases, Abel grounds out to short, Charlie doubles.

Before the appeal (or if there is no appeal).

Abel: 6-3
Baker: (blank)
Charlie: 2b
Daniel: (pending entry).

After the appeal:

Abel: 6-3
Baker: TSTBWIYT*
Charlie: <erase>2b</erase> (pending entry)

* = Too Stupid To Bat When It's Your Turn

[Rich_Ives]

Okay, to the wrong batter hits a double, but is called out. But, he's the next, correct batter. Where to you put that double, and out? I mean, the correct batter can't credited with AB, but he's out. So you erase the wrong batters double, and just put BOO in the proper batter's box?

I just want to be able to explain it to our scorekeepers (No, not as an umpire, but as a league official).

If the batter hits a doublea nd is put out do you think he's goiing to then walk to the plate and bat again sans an appeal?

If there's an appeal the double and out never happened. Erase it. Mark the proper batter out for BOO, and continue on.

[Rich_Ives]

Okay. FIrst inning. Batting order is Abel, Baker, Charlie, but they bat Abel Charlie (skipping Baker). In all cases, Abel grounds out to short, Charlie doubles.

Before the appeal (or if there is no appeal).

Abel: 6-3
Baker: (blank)
Charlie: 2b
Daniel: (pending entry).

After the appeal:

Abel: 6-3
Baker: TSTBWIYT*
Charlie: <erase>2b</erase> (pending entry)

* = Too Stupid To Bat When It's Your Turn

I suspect that the higher levels it mostly happens because the lineup handed the umpire doesn''t match what the coach posted in the dugout. Still stupid but it's not the batter that's stupid.

[bobjenkins]

I suspect that the higher levels it mostly happens because the lineup handed the umpire doesn''t match what the coach posted in the dugout. Still stupid but it's not the batter that's stupid.

Agreed. IT's mostly a joke and a way to teach the ruling to newer umpires who get confused over who should be out.

[heyblue26]

Agreed. IT's mostly a joke and a way to teach the ruling to newer umpires who get confused over who should be out.

Thanks Bob

[johnnyg08]

If it's the official scorekeeper such notification is forbidden by rule.

I'm sure the "hands are part of the bat" mom knows those rules.

Let's keep it real...if they notice, they're going to say something. Seriously folks.

[yawetag]

If it's the official scorekeeper such notification is forbidden by rule.

If the official scorekeeper is the girlfriend of one of the players on the home team, is she supposed to keep quiet, too?

[Rich_Ives]

If the official scorekeeper is the girlfriend of one of the players on the home team, is she supposed to keep quiet, too?

If she's designated as the official scorekeeper - Yes. It's forbidden by rule. If you'd open Rule 10 you'd find out who the official scorekeeper is and the rule that says they can't reveal a BOO. If you've never opened Rule 10 then in this particular instance you're no different than the coaches you deride for not knowing the other 9 rules rules.

Eject her if she spills the beans. :lol:

[Rich_Ives]

I'm sure the "hands are part of the bat" mom knows those rules.

Let's keep it real...if they notice, they're going to say something. Seriously folks.

The "habds are pert of the bat" Mom probably isn't the official scorekeeper. The team scorekeeper can broadcast it on the internet and Fox news. Any fan in the stand can yell it out. But the umpires and the OFFICIAL scorekeeper cannot. Toss them if they do. Seriously.

[yawetag]

If she's designated as the official scorekeeper - Yes. It's forbidden by rule. If you'd open Rule 10 you'd find out who the official scorekeeper is and the rule that says they can't reveal a BOO. If you've never opened Rule 10 then in this particular instance you're no different than the coaches you deride for not knowing the other 9 rules rules.

Eject her if she spills the beans. :lol:

I was seriously asking. I've perused Rule 10 and have even read before the scorekeeper isn't supposed to tip someone to BOO. I've also known that in most situations, the home book is the "official" book, and that book is usually camped out in the home dugout. I've never put the two together and realized it would be against the rules for that person to tell their coach of a BOO.

However, that's a dirty stick I don't think I'd ever grab.

[johnnyg08]

I was seriously asking. I've perused Rule 10 and have even read before the scorekeeper isn't supposed to tip someone to BOO. I've also known that in most situations, the home book is the "official" book, and that book is usually camped out in the home dugout. I've never put the two together and realized it would be against the rules for that person to tell their coach of a BOO.

However, that's a dirty stick I don't think I'd ever grab.

Totally agree. I don't do many ESPN games.

[mmp1]

I've never put the two together and realized it would be against the rules for that person to tell their coach of a BOO.

It was always my opinion that if one of the team scorekeepers is designated as the official scorekeeper for the game, then, for the purposes of this rule, that scorekeeper is really two people. The _official_ scorekeeper can't say anything about BOOT but the _team_ scorekeeper can (and should). IMHO

[yawetag]

It was always my opinion that if one of the team scorekeepers is designated as the official scorekeeper for the game, then, for the purposes of this rule, that scorekeeper is really two people. The _official_ scorekeeper can't say anything about BOOT but the _team_ scorekeeper can (and should). IMHO

And how exactly is a scorekeeper going to be two different people at the same time? You expect them to be the "official scorekeeper" and not say anything to their coach, yet be the "team scorekeeper" and tell him? At what point in this paradox does the switch occur?

[socal lurker]

Local PONY rule keeps the scorekeeper out of this quandry, including in the responsiblitiies of the scorekeeper:

4. For baseball, notify the manager concerned if an ineligible player or an improper batter is about to be used in the game, but the failure of the scorer to do so has no effect upon the rules.

Gets to just let the kids play and don't penalize adult mistakes . . .

[yawetag]

Local PONY rule keeps the scorekeeper out of this quandry, including in the responsiblitiies of the scorekeeper:

I read that as dealing with substitutes that are ineligible, not a BOO situation.

[mmp1]

And how exactly is a scorekeeper going to be two different people at the same time? You expect them to be the "official scorekeeper" and not say anything to their coach, yet be the "team scorekeeper" and tell him? At what point in this paradox does the switch occur?

The official scorekeeper sits quietly and says nothing while the team scorekeeper alerts the manager. They just happen to be occupying the same body and writing in the same book. There is really no paradox. Now, if you were to see two PhDs walking down the hall, you would say, "Now there's a pair 'a docs" :wink:

[heyblue26]

A scorekeeper is there to kept score is that not correct? So they shouldn't say anything IMO. If the coaches are paying attention of what is going on during the game then they are the ones whom should catch the batting out of order right? Its not the scorekeeper's job but it does happen.

[mturman]

A scorekeeper is there to kept score is that not correct? So they shouldn't say anything IMO. If the coaches are paying attention of what is going on during the game then they are the ones whom should catch the batting out of order right? Its not the scorekeeper's job but it does happen.

100% correct brother...In fact, locally here in Hawaii the SK is often a member of one team or another...I make it a point to remind them that during the course of the game, they work with me, not the teams...Most recognize and understand that...Some have a hard time being impartial...

During non-competitive play, it's a whole different ball game...

Aloha,
Mike

[semper_fi_72]

Here is a BOO for you.
LL Junior Game.
1 Out no runners.
#10 is suppose to bat, but #7 is at bat and gets a hit.
Manager address issue with me.
#10 declared out (2nd Out) and #7 returned to hit.
#7 gets another hit and becomes R1.
#10 comes to bat instead of the proper batter after #7 and gets a hit.
Manager comes out to discuss with me again.
Two BOO in the same inning and a Manager who knows exactly how to let it play out and one who is clueless about tracking his batting order.

[KenGibes]

Two BOO in the same inning and a Manager who knows exactly how to let it play out and one who is clueless about tracking his batting order.

In my experience with LL Juniors around here, a Manager who knows how to handle the situation when the other team is BOO is a rarity. Usually if the manager actually catches the BOO he comes running out to appeal after the first pitch is thrown to the BOO batter and is upset when he doesn't get an 'out' out of the situation.