Where to Place the Runners after Coach Assistance

[packerbacker]

LL Rule 7.09(h) and associated RIM comments:

"It is interference by a batter or a runner when" ... "in the judgment of the umpire, the base coach at third base, or first base, by touching or holding the runner, physically assists that runner in returning to or leaving third base or first base."

"When a play is being made on the assisted runner, the umpire shall call “Time” and enforce the penalty: The runner is out and all runners return to the bases occupied at the time of the interference. If no play is being made on the assisted runner, the umpire shall signal that the runner is out and allow plays on other runners if possible (delayed dead ball)."

So, consider 0 outs, R1 and R3 with grounder hit to F5, 3rd base coach pushes a confused R3 towards HP, throw goes home, and PU declares R3 to be out for the interference. Presumably R1 cannot be sent back to 1B, the last base he had legally attained at the time of the interference. After the out is recorded, hard to imagine anything over than BR goes to 1B and R1 goes to 2B??

[SocalBlue1]

LL Rule 7.09(h) and associated RIM comments:

"It is interference by a batter or a runner when" ... "in the judgment of the umpire, the base coach at third base, or first base, by touching or holding the runner, physically assists that runner in returning to or leaving third base or first base."

"When a play is being made on the assisted runner, the umpire shall call “Time” and enforce the penalty: The runner is out and all runners return to the bases occupied at the time of the interference. If no play is being made on the assisted runner, the umpire shall signal that the runner is out and allow plays on other runners if possible (delayed dead ball)."

So, consider 0 outs, R1 and R3 with grounder hit to F5, 3rd base coach pushes a confused R3 towards HP, throw goes home, and PU declares R3 to be out for the interference. Presumably R1 cannot be sent back to 1B, the last base he had legally attained at the time of the interference. After the out is recorded, hard to imagine anything over than BR goes to 1B and R1 goes to 2B??

Correct. When dealing with runners after an interference call (the out or outs) place the BR, then push forward any runners that are forced. If there are any other runners left it will be easy to place them.

[pmylumpire13]

LL Rule 7.09(h) and associated RIM comments:

"It is interference by a batter or a runner when" ... "in the judgment of the umpire, the base coach at third base, or first base, by touching or holding the runner, physically assists that runner in returning to or leaving third base or first base."

"When a play is being made on the assisted runner, the umpire shall call “Time” and enforce the penalty: The runner is out and all runners return to the bases occupied at the time of the interference. If no play is being made on the assisted runner, the umpire shall signal that the runner is out and allow plays on other runners if possible (delayed dead ball)."

So, consider 0 outs, R1 and R3 with grounder hit to F5, 3rd base coach pushes a confused R3 towards HP, throw goes home, and PU declares R3 to be out for the interference. Presumably R1 cannot be sent back to 1B, the last base he had legally attained at the time of the interference. After the out is recorded, hard to imagine anything over than BR goes to 1B and R1 goes to 2B??

Yes, and the ONLY reason R1 goes to 2B is BECAUSE HE IS FORCED DUE TO THE BATTER BEING AWARDED 1B.

[Rich_Ives]

HOLD UP THERE!

This is coach interference play. The ball remains live and you just let it play out. There are no placement issues to resolve.

In a play where the ball is immediately dead - THEN you have to determine placement.

[pmylumpire13]

HOLD UP THERE!

This is coach interference play. The ball remains live and you just let it play out. There are no placement issues to resolve.

In a play where the ball is immediately dead - THEN you have to determine placement.

Right, Rich, but let me put it this way: The OFFENSE broke a rule, the OFFENSE is NOT going to gain an advantage from it. Batter gets 1B and R1 gets 2B.

[Rich_Ives]

Right, Rich, but let me put it this way: The OFFENSE broke a rule, the OFFENSE is NOT going to gain an advantage from it. Batter gets 1B and R1 gets 2B.

Wrong. The offense suffered an out.

The rest just plays out. Period.

[caughtlookin]

HOLD UP THERE!

This is coach interference play. The ball remains live and you just let it play out. There are no placement issues to resolve.

In a play where the ball is immediately dead - THEN you have to determine placement.

There is a play being made on the assisted runner.

[caughtlookin]

Wrong. The offense suffered an out.

The rest just plays out. Period.

So if they get the assisted runner in a run down between 3rd and HP. And the other R1 and b/r are standing on third and second your going to let that stand?


The OP was being made on R3 who was assisted. Time! He's our r1 to second b/r to 1st

[Rich_Ives]

So if they get the assisted runner in a run down between 3rd and HP. And the other R1 and b/r are standing on third and second your going to let that stand?


The OP was being made on R3 who was assisted. Time! He's our r1 to second b/r to 1st

You are changing the play. That changes the result. Stick to the subject at hand.

In your example there is a play being made on R3 so the ball is immediately dead upon the declaration of coach interference. Runners return to the base last touched at the time of the interference (unless forced). B-R to 1B, R1 to 2B.

The OP did not have a play being made on R3. The throw went home AFTER the runner was already out. Stupid move by F5 but no play on a runner. It only had assistance to R3. R3 out. Ball is live. Play continues.

[caughtlookin]

The OP did not have a play being made on R3. The throw went home AFTER the runner was already out. Stupid move by F5 but no play on a runner. It only had assistance to R3. R3 out. Ball is live. Play continues.

The OP did have a play being made on the runner. The throw from f5 went home to retire the assisted runner. Therefore the ball is dead.


The rule doesn't say anything about the defense being out of luck if they attempt to make a play on an assisted runner.


Or are you not taking the throw home as an attempt to retire r3

[richvee]

Wrong. The offense suffered an out.

The rest just plays out. Period.

From the LL RIM
"if no play is being made on the assisted runner, the umpire shall signal that the runner out and allow plays on other runners if possible."

I've always interpreted this to mean other runners could played on and put out. If not, they would be returned to the last base they legally acquired at the time of the interference.

FED rule makes this clear.
ART. 2 . . . No coach shall physically assist a runner during playing action.

PENALTY: The ball is dead at the end of playing action. The involved *batter-runner or runner is out and any additional outs made on the play stand. Runners not put out return to bases occupied at the time of the infraction.

I didn't think this rule was any different in FED or OBR. Am I wrong on this?

[KenGibes]

From the LL RIM
"if no play is being made on the assisted runner, the umpire shall signal that the runner out and allow plays on other runners if possible."

I've always interpreted this to mean other runners could played on and put out. If not, they would be returned to the last base they legally acquired at the time of the interference.

FED rule makes this clear.
ART. 2 . . . No coach shall physically assist a runner during playing action.

PENALTY: The ball is dead at the end of playing action. The involved *batter-runner or runner is out and any additional outs made on the play stand. Runners not put out return to bases occupied at the time of the infraction.

I didn't think this rule was any different in FED or OBR. Am I wrong on this?

This is the way that I thought the rule was interpreted, for LL and FED.

For straight OBR, I couldn't find anything in the rules to support the delayed dead ball ruling.


2.00 INTERFERENCE
(a) Offensive interference is an act by the team at bat which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play. If the umpire declares the batter, batter-runner, or a runner out for interference, all other runners shall return to the last base that was in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference, unless otherwise provided by these rules.

7.09(h) In the judgment of the umpire, the base coach at third base, or first base, by touching or holding the runner, physically assists him in returning to or leaving third base or first base.

PENALTY FOR INTERFERENCE: The runner is out and the ball is dead.OBR doesn't appear to differentiate between coach's interference where a play is being made on the runner and where a play is not being made on a runner. I don't have anything but the OBR rules in front of me now, so I don't know if there's an interp out there that treats coach's interference in OBR like it is treated in FED and LL.

[smithma89]

OBR treats it the same as LL. Ball is live and other actions that occur stand. (per Wendelstedt)

[UMP45]

You are changing the play. That changes the result. Stick to the subject at hand.

In your example there is a play being made on R3 so the ball is immediately dead upon the declaration of coach interference. Runners return to the base last touched at the time of the interference (unless forced). B-R to 1B, R1 to 2B.

The OP did not have a play being made on R3. The throw went home AFTER the runner was already out. Stupid move by F5 but no play on a runner. It only had assistance to R3. R3 out. Ball is live. Play continues.

I agree with Rich. They are making a play on a runner who is already out. Ball stays alive and play on McDuff!

[Ozzy]

The OP did have a play being made on the runner. The throw from f5 went home to retire the assisted runner. Therefore the ball is dead......
Incorrect Grasshopper! R3 was out for the interference of his coach, the ball is still alive. R3 can go to the plate if he wishes but the defense is supposed to be aware of the game situation and not play on him. If they do, they are just wasting their time. R1 and the BR can go for what ever they want until action on them stops. R1 and the BR are the only runners once R3 is called out for his coach's interference.

Don't confuse normal interference (ball dead, no advancement of runners) with Coach's Interference (runner interfered with by coach out, delayed dead ball, other runners can advance until play on the live runners ceases). Actually the title of Coach's Interference is what causes grasshoppers such as yourself to misunderstand the rule. We can't change the title so you have to change your understanding, grasshopper.

[packerbacker]

I was able to find the following specific "Instructor Comments" from the Little League Rules Instruction Manual regard this situation:

When a play is being made on the assisted runner, the umpire should call “Time” and enforce the penalty: The runner is out and all runners return to the bases occupied at the time of the interference (assistance). If no play is being made on the assisted runner, the umpire shall signal that the runner is out and allow plays on other runners if possible (delayed dead ball).