very messy play, B/R returns to plate after safely reaching 1B...

[slimbeaux]

Little League, girls softball, minors (10u).

We had a very messy play and I am struggling with how we handled it. I was official scorer.

R1, no outs. B/R full swing and ball trickles down 3rd base line in foul territory until it eventually rolls into fair territory and stops on the chalk about 1/2 way between HP and 3B. F1 picks up the ball, PU hollers "that is a fair ball!" while pointing at the ball. In the meantime, R1 safely advanced to 2B and B/R reached 1B.

I know that the PU should have only signaled the ball fair as opposed to declaring it fair as what happens next is the "proof point" for that.

This is where things go south. 1BC thought the PU called the ball "foul", so he instructs the B/R to return to the plate and calls the R1 back from 2B to 1B. Once the DC realizes what has happened and before F1 returns to the pitchers plate, she instructs the F1 to tag the R1, (who is now standing on 1B), F1 then touches the 1B. PU calls both R1 and B/R out.

I believe the R1 call out was correct as she was tagged while not in possession of 2B.

I "think" that the B/R should have been tagged in order for her to have been called out.

How should this have been called?

And for bonus points, as official scorer how should I have scored the outs? I scored both of the FC-1U, for Fielder's Choice, Pitcher, unassisted.

Thanks in advance.

-Ken

[jaxrolo]

Amazing!!! 8-O

Sounds like you need a new Umpire! :mad:

I have never ever heard an umpire call "FAIR" :confused:

And then to call both runners out at 1st??? :confused: Yikes!

The Correct thing to do is to put the runners back. Umpire caused the confusion.

[NorCalBallguy]

Put the runners back. PU says, "My bad, sorry..." Simple cure.

[mt 73]

Umpires voice a foul ball and point a fair ball.
No wonder why the poor coach was confused.
I know some very bad NY leagues where this PU can find some work....

[pmylumpire13]

Little League, girls softball, minors (10u).

We had a very messy play and I am struggling with how we handled it. I was official scorer.

R1, no outs. B/R full swing and ball trickles down 3rd base line in foul territory until it eventually rolls into fair territory and stops on the chalk about 1/2 way between HP and 3B. F1 picks up the ball, PU hollers "that is a fair ball!" while pointing at the ball. In the meantime, R1 safely advanced to 2B and B/R reached 1B.

I know that the PU should have only signaled the ball fair as opposed to declaring it fair as what happens next is the "proof point" for that.

This is where things go south. 1BC thought the PU called the ball "foul", so he instructs the B/R to return to the plate and calls the R1 back from 2B to 1B. Once the DC realizes what has happened and before F1 returns to the pitchers plate, she instructs the F1 to tag the R1, (who is now standing on 1B), F1 then touches the 1B. PU calls both R1 and B/R out.

I believe the R1 call out was correct as she was tagged while not in possession of 2B.

I "think" that the B/R should have been tagged in order for her to have been called out.

How should this have been called?

And for bonus points, as official scorer how should I have scored the outs? I scored both of the FC-1U, for Fielder's Choice, Pitcher, unassisted.

Thanks in advance.

-Ken

Ken - When "things go south," they go FAST. In this sitch, the BU (mistakenly) put the runners in-jeopardy, therefore the BU can "fix" the sitch by putting the batter at 1B and R1 at 2B. Situation resolved and tell the PU DO NOT VERBALIZE "FAIR," JUST POINT.

[mattinva]

Lets assume for a minute the umpire did everything right in the calling of the fair/foul.


I think the outs recorded were correct. R1 was forced off the bag by the hit and has no right to 2B. Tagging R1 puts him out, and tagging the base puts BR out.

Had the base or BR been tagged first, it would have removed the force on R1 allowing him to claim 1B.

Correct?

[smithma89]

Lets assume for a minute the umpire did everything right in the calling of the fair/foul.


I think the outs recorded were correct. R1 was forced off the bag by the hit and has no right to 2B. Tagging R1 puts him out, and tagging the base puts BR out.

Had the base or BR been tagged first, it would have removed the force on R1 allowing him to claim 1B.

Correct?

Others are correct - "calling" the ball fair was WRONG - just point - this is Umpiring 101. Bad umpire no Hot Dog!

As far as the sequence it was correct. Taking R1 first puts him out because he was forced from 1B on the hit. Then stepping on 1B puts the Batter-runner out. If the sequence of tags had been reversed the B-R would have been out when the bag was tagged and R1 would not be forced from the 1B and would be safe as long as he was on the bag.

The umpires should have fixed this and not let the defense get two outs because of bad umpiring mechanics.

[pmylumpire13]

Amazing!!! 8-O

Sounds like you need a new Umpire! :mad:

I have never ever heard an umpire call "FAIR" :confused:

And then to call both runners out at 1st??? :confused: Yikes!

The Correct thing to do is to put the runners back. Umpire caused the confusion.

Agreed. If the UMPIRE causes the confusion, the ump's gotta fix it...and eat some crow at the same time.

[heyblue26]

On a ball that is a slow roller down either the 3rd or 1st base lines and rolls foul and then fair and rest on the chalk line the signal from the PU making the call should be pointing at the ball indicating a fair ball with out saying a word.

By the umpire calling out fair ball made it sound like he called foul ball. That is why when a ball is that close just point at the ball and toward fair territory. As it has been said the Umpire caused all the confusion and then again the coach didn't help matters either. IMO

[bigblue2u]

I don't agree with those who say one should NEVER vocalize a fair ball. This is one example where an umpire could and should vocalize "fair ball." However, the mistake this umpire made was to yell it. If you have a situation with a fair ball, usually one on the plate or one that takes an unnatural bounce from foul territory, is to point into fair territory and say just loud enough for the batter and closest defensive player to hear, "That's a fair ball." Repeat it until someone does something.

[dash_riprock]

It's 10U. This calls for an automatic do-over.

[patrick s]

I don't agree with those who say one should NEVER vocalize a fair ball. This is one example where an umpire could and should vocalize "fair ball." However, the mistake this umpire made was to yell it. If you have a situation with a fair ball, usually one on the plate or one that takes an unnatural bounce from foul territory, is to point into fair territory and say just loud enough for the batter and closest defensive player to hear, "That's a fair ball." Repeat it until someone does something.

What part of "Never vocalize a fair ball!" don't you understand?

[mturman]

[QUOTE=bigblue2u;153991]I don't agree with those who say one should NEVER vocalize a fair ball. This is one example where an umpire could and should vocalize "fair ball." QUOTE]

I would be interested to know where such mechanics are written...Are they a locally provided book for your association...

Otherwise, I would stick with what I know is printed...

Aloha,
Mike