Ground Rules How would you rule?

[heyblue26]

we have a field that we play on and also foodball, soccer and has a football goal post down the right field line just past first base area that can not be removed. The uprights hang over into fair territory.
We usally for safety reason the past few years have ruled that if a ball that is hit and hits the upright inflight that it is called a dead ball and runner'(s) return to there TOP base and batter returns to the plate.

Lets say batter has a 3-2 count he hits the ball and it hits the upright and ball lands in fair territory. Do you call dead ball runners return to there TOP base and the batter returns with a 3-2 count. How would you rule on this type of situation? The same as mentioned above or what would you do or recommend?

Its a topic each season and we play on that field tomorrow. do you say play as I have explained it or what would you do different.

[Dano]

we have a field that we play on and also foodball, soccer and has a football goal post down the right field line just past first base area that can not be removed. The uprights hang over into fair territory.
We usally for safety reason the past few years have ruled that if a ball that is hit and hits the upright inflight that it is called a dead ball and runner'(s) return to there TOP base and batter returns to the plate.

Lets say batter has a 3-2 count he hits the ball and it hits the upright and ball lands in fair territory. Do you call dead ball runners return to there TOP base and the batter returns with a 3-2 count. How would you rule on this type of situation? The same as mentioned above or what would you do or recommend?

Its a topic each season and we play on that field tomorrow. do you say play as I have explained it or what would you do different.


Whatever it is.. stick with it.

I umpire several "very rural" fields that have similar situations. As long as everyone knows and agrees beforehand.. then call it consistent.

[Rich_Ives]

we have a field that we play on and also foodball, soccer and has a football goal post down the right field line just past first base area that can not be removed. The uprights hang over into fair territory.
We usally for safety reason the past few years have ruled that if a ball that is hit and hits the upright inflight that it is called a dead ball and runner'(s) return to there TOP base and batter returns to the plate.

Lets say batter has a 3-2 count he hits the ball and it hits the upright and ball lands in fair territory. Do you call dead ball runners return to there TOP base and the batter returns with a 3-2 count. How would you rule on this type of situation? The same as mentioned above or what would you do or recommend?

Its a topic each season and we play on that field tomorrow. do you say play as I have explained it or what would you do different.

If it's been that way for years why change the rule now?

If it does get changed it should be done pre-seaason and published.

[heyblue26]

[QUOTE=Rich_Ives;120185]If it's been that way for years why change the rule now?

Rich and Dano thanks for the reply to my question and I just wanted to know how others would apply this situation and believe that it would be ruled the same as long as everyone agreed. Do not see a problem but have a few new umpires this year and they will be calling on this field. thank again.

[nwsquid]

I'm not advocating a change, but I am curious if you know the genesis of the decision.

If I was faced with a field with an obstruction in fair territory like this (and there was no historically used rule in place), I think I'd be inclined to advise that balls that hit the goal posts are ground rule doubles.

Seems like the offense is getting penalized by taking away a soundly hit fair ball.

Guess no matter how bad a field I umpire on there is always gonna be a guy umpiring on a worse one.

[Rich_Ives]

I'm not advocating a change, but I am curious if you know the genesis of the decision.

If I was faced with a field with an obstruction in fair territory like this (and there was no historically used rule in place), I think I'd be inclined to advise that balls that hit the goal posts are ground rule doubles.

Seems like the offense is getting penalized by taking away a soundly hit fair ball.

Guess no matter how bad a field I umpire on there is always gonna be a guy umpiring on a worse one.

It could just as well been curving foul and hitting the post kept it fair.

[nwsquid]

It could just as well been curving foul and hitting the post kept it fair.

Certainly.

I just feel bad for the kid I guess.

[Dano]

In "ruralville" we have several fields with the power lines jaunting across the fields from foul territory, over into fair territory, and then over the "homerun fence" into never land.

The rule?

If the ball hits it.. play it where it lands. If the outfielder can catch it on the carom.. OUT. If it drops in fair.. RUN. If it drops in foul... and if batter hits it again during the same at-bat... then buy him a gatorade after the game.


Oh and it gets better.

One field doesn't have the foul/fair line marked past the infield

and another one is played on a football field. Imagine this. Home plate to foul pole down the third base line is straight north and south. The football field runs southeast to northwest. So then, the majority of the outfield grass is very sparse, and very brown.. so when the sun goes down.. have a fun time trying to find the chalk...

[jaxrolo]

We have a park where there are trees that overhang right over 3rd base.

It was determined that if a ball hit any part of the tree then we had a "foul".

[captk]

4-1-2 applies. The home team proposes the ground rule. If both coaches agree go with it, if not The umpires shall formulate ground rules. I've never had a coaches disagree with the proposed ground rule proposed by the home team coach.

[Richard_Siegel]

we have a field that we play on and also foodball, soccer and has a football goal post down the right field line just past first base area that can not be removed. The uprights hang over into fair territory.
We usally for safety reason the past few years have ruled that if a ball that is hit and hits the upright inflight that it is called a dead ball and runner'(s) return to there TOP base and batter returns to the plate.

Lets say batter has a 3-2 count he hits the ball and it hits the upright and ball lands in fair territory. Do you call dead ball runners return to there TOP base and the batter returns with a 3-2 count. How would you rule on this type of situation? The same as mentioned above or what would you do or recommend?

Its a topic each season and we play on that field tomorrow. do you say play as I have explained it or what would you do different.


Your situation is clearly covered by Rule 4-1-2.d (below) your association should require this school to follow the rulebook. Especially since ground rules should not "supersede a rules book rule." The goal post is clearly an "unusual condition." Under no circumstances should this just be a "do-over" as you described what they are doing.

4-1-2 . . . If there are unusual conditions, such as spectators or obstacles too near the playing field, the home coach shall propose special ground rules. If sanctioned by the visiting team, these shall be in force. If the teams cannot agree, the umpires shall formulate ground rules. Ground rules do not supersede a rules book rule. All special rules shall be announced.

d. For a special field condition, such as a drain pipe that makes a spot where it is impossible or very difficult for a fielder to retrieve the ball, the ball should become dead if it goes to that spot and each runner’s advance should be limited to two bases.

[Rich_Ives]

Your situation is clearly covered by Rule 4-1-2.d (below) your association should require this school to follow the rulebook. Especially since ground rules should not "supersede a rules book rule." The goal post is clearly an "unusual condition." Under no circumstances should this just be a "do-over" as you described what they are doing.

4-1-2 . . . If there are unusual conditions, such as spectators or obstacles too near the playing field, the home coach shall propose special ground rules. If sanctioned by the visiting team, these shall be in force. If the teams cannot agree, the umpires shall formulate ground rules. Ground rules do not supersede a rules book rule. All special rules shall be announced.

d. For a special field condition, such as a drain pipe that makes a spot where it is impossible or very difficult for a fielder to retrieve the ball, the ball should become dead if it goes to that spot and each runner’s advance should be limited to two bases.

I can't see why that applies here.

[Richard_Siegel]

I can't see why that applies here.

You don't see how a goal post in fair territory is an unusual condition?

[jaxrolo]

Maybe if they hit the ball through the Goal Posts they get an extra run instead of an extra point.

[yawetag]

Maybe if they hit the ball through the Goal Posts they get an extra run instead of an extra point.

"But, Blue, in football, we get THREE points when it goes through."

[Richard_Siegel]

I did a game at a park where there was no fence on the outfield. In right field about 350 feet from HP there was an 8 foot park bench and a trash can next to it. The bench and trash can were anchored into the ground and could not be moved. Since it was a neutral site for the teams I made up the ground rules. I said the bench and can was in play even if the ball hits the can or settle under the bench, go get the ball. However, I was going to treat the trash can as a "fence" so if the ball went into the trash can it was dead. On the fly it would be a HR.

During the game one guy hit a long fly ball the hit the rim of the can but bounced back off the can! We were all shocked.