Jump Turn Question

[Guidry]

RHP with runners at 1st and 2nd. Pitcher pulls a quick jump turn and fakes a throw towards second. Balk or not?

I've gotten myself all confused with this one.

[CoachJM]

Guidry,

No balk.

JM

[ump_24]

Guidry,

No balk.

JM

Plus an "atta boy" for not falling.

[bobjenkins]

RHP with runners at 1st and 2nd. Pitcher pulls a quick jump turn and fakes a throw towards second. Balk or not?

I've gotten myself all confused with this one.

Why are you confused over this? (I don't mean that at "how the eff could anyone be so stupid as to get confused over this?" It's a serious question. I do a fair amount of training and your answer will (I hope) help.)

[Guidry]

Well, glad you asked. A few ideas in my mind got all tangled up and I was able to justify why I thought it COULD be considered.

The "spin" move, not the jump move, to second is always preceded by stepping back off the rubber. At that point (foot off the rubber), a fake to first becomes legal, right?

A jump move to first with a fake throw is a balk, right?

How much direction towards 2nd is enough to be considered a move to 2nd and not first? How much of a fake/motion towards second has to be made before he could turn back and thrwo to first?

My confusion probably goes back the idea that a balk is an effort to DECEIVE the runner. This initial turn towards the first base direction, while not stepping off the rubber, could be deceive the runner.

[Yeh, I'm reading deep into the idea]

[celebur]

[Yeh, I'm reading deep into the idea]Yes, you are. Based on your description, you're missing the fact that by rule, feints from the rubber are allowed to 2B and 3B but NOT to 1B. So long as the "jump turn" that you describe includes the required step towards 2B, there's no balk even if there's no throw.

[get it right]

Had the same thing come up last week.

Runner on 1st and 2nd. Pitcher jump turns towards first, realizes that first baseman isnt their and he made a mistake. Starts his throw and then stops and throws the ball in the ground in front of him.

I called balk. Correct?

[Ozzy]

Well, glad you asked. A few ideas in my mind got all tangled up and I was able to justify why I thought it COULD be considered.

The "spin" move, not the jump move, to second is always preceded by stepping back off the rubber. At that point (foot off the rubber), a fake to first becomes legal, right?

A jump move to first with a fake throw is a balk, right?

How much direction towards 2nd is enough to be considered a move to 2nd and not first? How much of a fake/motion towards second has to be made before he could turn back and thrwo to first?

My confusion probably goes back the idea that a balk is an effort to DECEIVE the runner. This initial turn towards the first base direction, while not stepping off the rubber, could be deceive the runner.

[Yeh, I'm reading deep into the idea]
You are probably confusing yourself because you are stressing the word DECEIVE. It is F1 job to deceive the batter and the runners. The question is simply, is F1 deceiving legally. Deception has nothing to do with balking whereas failure to do it correctly, results in a balk.

Focus on the important things. Did F1 step off?


Yes? Then he is an infielder and can do whatever he wants.
No? Then F1 must not move toward the plate if he is going for a runner.
No? Then F1 better not fake to 1st.
No? Then F1 may step to 3rd but better disengage before he goes to 1st.

Just keep inserting things after "No" and you will develop a nice little list to study from. Just forget that word deceive a it will get you into trouble.

[sdix00]

In that spirit, let me give you my checklist.

Instead of focusing on the 13 things F1 CANNOT do (read 13 ways to balk), I choose instead to focus on the 3, and only 3 things F1 CAN do.


From the SET:
1. STEP to HP and deliver a pitch.
2. Step to a base for the purpose of making a play (if that play is at 1B, F1 must throw.)
3. Disengage legally

THAT'S IT. That's all F1 can do. Once F1 starts moving, he better pick one of the above and do it. If he moves and does not do one of those 3 things, F1 has probably balked.

In your OP, F1 stepped to 2B for the purpose of making a play. So no balk.

Still not sure? no prob. You are probably asking if a jump turn is a step. Digging a little deeper, we learn that in order for a step to be legal, the free foot must move with distance and direction toward the base. Further, when judging distance, F1 must not place the heel of the free foot in the same place in which is started.

[CoachJM]

Had the same thing come up last week.

Runner on 1st and 2nd. Pitcher jump turns towards first, realizes that first baseman isnt their and he made a mistake. Starts his throw and then stops and throws the ball in the ground in front of him.

I called balk. Correct?

get it right,

I can't tell from your description.

If he released the ball as he was "stopping" - but the move was otherwise "continuous", AND the throw into the dirt was more or less in the direction of 1B, it's probably NOT a balk - just a crappy pick-off throw.

If he started a move to 1B and then stopped it and then threw it into the ground, then I've got a balk.

JM